Our latest CPAC-Nanos nightly tracking (completed September 15th) shows the Conservatives seven points up, nationally, over the Liberals, nationally, among decided voters (CP - 38%, Lib - 31%, NDP - 17%, GP - 8%, BQ - 6%). In Quebec, the Bloc, Conservatives and Liberals remain gripped in a three way battle for first in the province (Bloc - 26%, CP - 25% and Lib - 24%), while in both the Atlantic and Ontario the Tories and Grits are statistically tied. As we’ve seen throughout the campaign the Tories hold a solid lead over the Liberals in Western Canada (CP - 47%, Lib - 29%).
On the best PM front, Stephen Harper is out front, the choice of 36% of Canadians, followed by Jack Layton (18%) and Stephane Dion (14%). Elizabeth May and Gilles Duceppe (3% each) round out the top best PM scores. Notably, one quarter of Canadians responded either none - 8% or unsure - 18% on this measure.
CPAC-Nanos Leadership Index shows Stephen Harper leading with an overall index score of 101 points, double second place Jack Layton’s score of 51 points. Stephane Dion (48 points) is tied with Layton, followed by Elizabeth May (14 points) and Gilles Duceppe at (11 points).
Tune in to Prime Time Politics with Peter Van Dusen tonight at 8 pm (EST) on CPAC for a discussion of our latest polling results. For more detailed information on the methodology and the statistical results visit the Nanos Research website at http://www.nanosresearch.com.
Methodology and Results
A national random telephone survey is conducted nightly by Nanos Research throughout the campaign. Each evening a new group of 400 eligible voters are interviewed. The daily tracking figures are based on a three-day rolling sample comprised of 1,200 interviews. To update the tracking a new day of interviewing is added and the oldest day dropped. The margin of accuracy is ±2.8%, 19 times out of 20 for 1,202 random interviews.
The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the previous Nanos Research Survey completed on September 14, 2008.
Question: If a FEDERAL election were held today, could you please rank your top two current local voting preferences? (First ranked reported)
Committed Voters - Canada (N=972, MoE ± 3.2%, 19 times out of 20)
- Conservative Party 38% (+1)
- Liberal Party 31% (NC)
- NDP 17% (-1)
- Green Party 8% (-1)
- BQ 6% (NC)
- Undecided 19% (-1)
Question: Of the following individuals, who do you think would make the best Prime Minister? [Rotate] (N=1,202,MoE ± 2.8%, 19 times out of 20)
- Conservative leader Stephen Harper 36% (+2)
- NDP leader Jack Layton 18% (NC)
- Liberal leader Stephane Dion 14% (NC)
- Green Party leader Elizabeth May 3% (-1)
- Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe 3% (-1)
- None of them 8% (-1)
- Unsure 18% (NC)
Question: Which of the federal leaders would you best describe as:
The most trustworthy leader
The most competent leader
The leader with the best vision for Canada’s future
[Leadership Index Score] (N=1,202, MoE ± 2.8%, 19 times out of 20)
- Stephen Harper 101 (+5)
- Jack Layton 51 (+3)
- Stephane Dion 48 (+3)
- Elizabeth May 4 (-4)
- Gilles Duceppe 11 (-1)
What do you think?
Cheers, NJN
Remember to rate the views of others - to allow us to recognize the opinion leaders in our national conversation.
Individuals with the top ratings make it to Nik’s Leaderboard
Most Read Comments
Highest Rated Comments
Interesting to see such a large difference between this and the recently release... more
apukwa (Ontario) 16 Sep 14:26
The Tories have peaked for now as we can see and their voting intentions will go... more
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments) (Ontario) 16 Sep 14:29
What's interesting about it is that while they get the same numbers for the CPC,... more
Foxer (British Columbia) 16 Sep 14:49
References to Nazis is inappropriate here! You are away over the top with such c... more
westerner (suspended) (Alberta) 16 Sep 16:53
Well the poll would suggest the libs bled to the ndp and green, both of whom are... more
Foxer (British Columbia) 16 Sep 18:31
Yes, that is also possible. It's also possible that the dialers are operating at... more
Foxer (British Columbia) 16 Sep 18:36
Comments
apukwa
Interesting to see such a large difference between this and the recently released "IVR poll" done by Ekos. Certainly brings into question the validity of IVR polls (rolling or not even with a large sample). Either way, it must smart to have their first poll look rogue.
What are your thoughts on using IVRs to poll people, Nik?
Hmm... I wonder if they rotate the options...
[updated Tue Sep 16 14:26:35 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 14:26
20 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
The Tories have peaked for now as we can see and their voting intentions will go down from here if the last election is any indicator. Martin dropped during the campaign and Harper rose. When Dion gets fully mobilized over the next few days or so which is his plan I think Harper will be on the defensive and the NDP support will slip along with the Greens. The libs will gain a lot of the undecideds on the left as things come more into view and I also see Dion's personal numbers starting to get more traction little by little.
The Liberal express is warming up
[updated Tue Sep 16 14:29:19 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 14:29
16 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
westerner (suspended)
Harper is the best leader for Canada and Dion has the Green Shaft tax increase. Conservative majority is a real possibility! I would have bet on a minority Conservative Government before the campaign. Times are changing for the better.
[updated Tue Sep 16 17:15:34 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 17:15
48 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
apukwa
{rolls eyes}... geeze, aren't people mature enough to have a discussion without name-calling? It's "Green Shift". They are the Conservative party, not CONservative party. They're Liberals, not LIEberals. It's so juvenile.
[updated Tue Sep 16 17:21:10 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 17:21
westerner (suspended)
(rolls eyes) ..It is a Shaft however you slice it. It is not tax neutral!
[updated Tue Sep 16 17:40:45 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 17:40
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
westerner, shaft... as in you're upset about brown shirt remarks but can make other insulting remarks?
[updated Tue Sep 16 17:58:14 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 17:58
westerner (suspended)
There is nothing insulting about calling the Dion Plan a Shaft. It is a tax shaft for the Canadian people!
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:04:02 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:04
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
here's Rae giving the Harper shaft of the Canadian people another poke:
"Mr. Rae blasted Mr. Harper for breaking his law on fixed election dates, saying he can now not be believed on his withdrawal date for Afghanistan, and he accused him of appearing on TV in a sweater to lull Canadians into believing he called a snap election to get another minority government, when he's trying to “dupe” them into giving him a majority.
“There's something about the way Mr. Harper looks at us on television and says things about income trusts and says things about fixed elections, and we know they're not true. And we have what's called the Little Red Riding Hood factor at work. As we look at Mr. Harper and we instinctively say, ‘Granma! What big teeth you have!'”
And another Dion poke at Harper's shafting of all Canadians....
"Mr. Dion also made a joke of criticisms that his awkward English is getting in the way of his message.
“Mr. Harper, he speaks better English than me. OK. But I say the truth better than him in English and French.”
he's calling Harper for what he is...... a liar.
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:09:58 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:09
westerner (suspended)
Get real! All politicians promise things knowing they will renege.The Liberals promised a national daycare program, to renegotiate the NAFTA, and to eliminate the GST entirely. They were never serious and knew these promises were untrue. Then the biggest lie of all..we will meet our Kyoto goals; and then did nothing.
We get used to these goofy promises over time and expect nothing less from all our politicians.
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:20:39 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:20
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
We are talking about the current crop of politicians and Harper has shafted all of us with his lies, money laundering and bribes.
We got shafted with his eelction call.
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:32:35 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:32
Foxer
And dion promised to do something about kyoto. He had years - he did nothing.
And he has flip flopped on numerous issues.
And he voted FOR the income trust tax as well.
Not to mention the fact that he hasn't voted in parliament 43 times.
Not exactly a confidence building track record at all :)
Lets face it. I don't care for cheap name calling (tho you are the last person on earth who has a right to complain about it TPQ, but the carbon tax is going to truly hurt people. And dion can't manage his party's finances, never mind a country's
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:40:07 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:40
nonpartisan
wow. i've read hundreds of posts through this election period so far and that must be the saddest, most disheartening thing i've ever laid eyes on. is it any wonder our voter turnout is so low. any wonder so so many people can't even name the party leaders or what they actually stand for?
perhaps you are right and all politicians do promise things they know they will renege on but, i will NEVER get used to goofy promises and I will ALWAYS expect more of them. when and if i figure out who that leader is, I would not be non-partisan any longer. lower your own bar on honesty if you choose, but don't lower mine.
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:37:28 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:37
larryl
Non . Not sure who or what you were addressing but would be interested to know so I and others who read the latest comments can see of you are right.There have been some sad things that have been said but we usually know who they were attributed to.
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:46:43 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:46
nonpartisan
hi larryl,
from westerner:
Get real! All politicians promise things knowing they will renege.The Liberals promised a national daycare program, to renegotiate the NAFTA, and to eliminate the GST entirely. They were never serious and knew these promises were untrue. Then the biggest lie of all..we will meet our Kyoto goals; and then did nothing.
We get used to these goofy promises over time and expect nothing less from all our politicians.
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:50:19 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:50
larryl
Non. Some only remember broken promises from the party they don't like. Others know campaign promises from a politician are not worth the paper they are written on and usually aren't even written down anywhere . The Liberals taught others with there Red Book that they can't be held to those promises if you don't list them for future reference. This election is the best example of how we should never believe anything they since Harper actually broke his own law to cause us to go to the polls.
[updated Tue Sep 16 21:17:24 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 21:17
nonpartisan
Larry, it's not so much about who has broken how many promises.
Harper has broken lots. And the Libs broke lots.
It's the ACCEPTANCE that it's OK that I find sad.
I don't accept that. I will not accept that.
I am reasonable enough to understand that sometimes promises need to be revamped a bit based on changing economy or circumstances over the course of a government.
But, if all voters are like Westerner and give their politician of choice a pass because it's what they've come to expect, how accountable will government ever be?
[updated Tue Sep 16 21:24:34 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 21:24
westerner (suspended)
You have not been non-partisan for a very long time.
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:39:18 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:39
johnnyice
Bob Rae ? Who is pious perfect politician ? Oh yeah ; the NDP guy who along with "Pink Floyd' destroyed Ontario !
Now that is an example of credibility !
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:50:48 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:50
larryl
Ice. You have a short memory . The recession had a little to do with Rae damaging Ontario but it was really destroyed by Mike the Knife . You do remember he left as one of the most hated politician in the history of this province . Maybe we despised him because he did such a good job.
[updated Tue Sep 16 21:39:32 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 21:39
Foxer
actually rae had a lower opinion rating leaving office than harris did. rae actually is one of the most hated politicians of ontario's history.
And while it's true he didn't create the recession, he made it worse and deepened it considerably - and left the gov't in a state of complete disaster financially. FAR FAR worse than harris.
[updated Tue Sep 16 23:03:10 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 23:03
Bernie
I voted for Rae and maybe if he were the Liberal leader I would vote for him again. He did a masterful job of bringing us through a recession that he had no control over. If it hadn't been for his wise guidance we would have had it much worse.
Then we had that despicable Harris. The worst premier Ontario ever had. Boy, did he ever punish those who were in the lower 25% on the economy scale. Could I ever give you a list of stories of the suffering of some of those individuals. But, of course, those who were better off don't want to know and don't care about them.
[updated Wed Sep 17 07:57:33 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 07:57
johnnyice
Mr. Rae blasted Mr. Harper for breaking his law on fixed election dates.
Hmm , was that 'law' applicable to majority governments only ?
Regardless , what is point in trying to govern when the opposition parties have stated they will not work with Mr. Harper ? That is a total waste of time & money !
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:56:02 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:56
I think the recently-deceased Parliament was working as it should. The Liberals agreed to pass a slew of feeble Tory bills about a 1% cut in the GST, road-racing and orther trivia. The Libs knew Canadians didn't want an election on false grounds and the Libs delivered.
Mr. Harper has lost patience because he wants a majority and believes it's now or never. He's likely right as the trends point towards a Conservative slide. He's wrong on the war in Afghanistan, wrong on the "free" market economy, wrong on the envoronment, wrong on his blind loyalty to the most disastrous President of all time, wrong on (refusing to) help the disadvantaged.... wrong, wrong, wrong.
Better a vote now before we realize that the emperor has no clothes.
[updated Tue Sep 16 22:38:47 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 22:38
Foxer
So - you wouldn't say that the fact that all 3 opposition leaders told harper there was 'no common ground at all' for this session, coupled with the fact that dion had been actively campaigning for 3 months, demonstrated that things weren't going to go smoothly this session? :)
Hey - dion had been threatening election all summer. it's his own fault if he brought one down on himself by putting forward the green tax, which was an absolutely horrible plan from the beginning.
[updated Tue Sep 16 23:06:32 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 23:06
Foxer, get real. Mr. Dion''s Green Shift didn't cause this election. Harper did. Because he knew it was now or never. For him, it was all downhill from here.
[updated Tue Sep 16 23:43:28 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 23:43
Foxer
Of course it did! First off - it was proof that dion didn't intend to work in the new parliament (not that he showed up for work in the last one).
But most of all - it was the STUPIDEST plan ever! Harper suspected dion would back down on calling an election like he was threatening to and then throw the green shift in the garbage once he got back the polling results from his summer of campaigning on it.
Harper wanted him to run on it. And it's killing him :) Dion's being murdered by his own 'plan' :)
Dion is losing this election badly because he's being forced to actually stand up for one of his 'ideals'. That's hilarious irony :)
As a result - we'll get a stronger minority or a weak majority. But either way - the liberals are done. They cannot afford another election, not for many many years. They are going to be far worse off financially than they were before, and it'll just get worse.
ANd harper will push around the next leader because he won't be able to afford to go, whereas the cpc will.
Either way the Libs are done - thanks to dion.
That's what dion would have done to canada. But he wouldn't have gotten the chance.
[updated Wed Sep 17 01:33:28 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 01:33
gretag
Foxer, there is a lot of excellent information on carbon pricing. I particularly like the Congressional Budget Office reports because they are non-partisan and well-researched. They found results at odds with both political parties, the Dems and Repubs, which is that if the US were to do the right thing to place their economy on the strongest footing and recognize the risk of climate change, they would implement a carbon tax and cut income and other taxes.
Obama and McCain, like Harper, are proposing a cap and trade instead, for the simple reason that they believe they cannot campaign on introducing a "tax" even if the revenue is used to offset other taxes.
That may also be the situation for Canada where Harper has spent millions blasting the Green Shift and continually lies about Dion's plans on the Green Shift and other parts of his platform. However, it is certainly not because Harper is doing the right thing and he knows it because even he has a government report (which he hid) that analyses a carbon tax.
It is simply politics where doing the wrong thing can win votes if you manage to fool enough voters. Let us call a spade a spade and not be dishonest with ourselves. Or let's not speak from ignorance, because we haven't learned the truth about carbon pricing and the economy.
Harper lies. Dion speaks truth. Will Canada win or lose?
Here is one CBO report. There are many others:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8934/toc.htm
[updated Wed Sep 17 04:08:54 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 04:08
Bernie
We are going to pay dearly for burning fossil fuels. We should started paying have long ago. We had better start now. the longer we leave it the worse it will be. and we have to pay
There is no getting around it. If the government pays, then that is us.
If industry pays, it is us. Companies will just pass the cost on to us through higher prices for their products and services.
No matter what; WE HAVE TO PAY. so let's accept it and get on with it.
Cap and trade doesn't work. Cap doesn't reverse what's already being done now. Trade allows the corporations to abuse the system for profits and they will galdly do that. there's no question about that.
The only practical and sensible way to force the polluters to reduce, starting with the biggest polluters first. Even if it's only small incremental amounts, it's a beginning and it's heading in the right direction.
Harper is not going to do anything because the he doesn't believe in it.
The most foolish thing of all is to say it hurts the economy. It's just the opposite. The economy depends on the environment.
The better the environment the better is the potential for economic growth.
[updated Wed Sep 17 08:18:25 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 08:18
If I may spread this discussion to larger issues. Economic performance and environmental protection are really important issues but what about individual rights? As citizens, workers and consumers, we are getting hammered by our governments and businesses. Whoever said, "You can't fight City Hall," would be dumbfounded by our circumstances today.
Large institutions need to be held accountable, whoever owns them. Yet, they spend great effort avoiding exactly that. Keeping secrets, spinning, suing..... all that Rovian stuff.
The person I vote for will offer more than a few, token tax breaks. S/he will offer democratic reform, such as proportional representation, better protect my human/economic/safety rights at work and better ensure the safety and value of my food and any other products or services I buy on the "free" market.
It's not a French or English or male or female thing. It's not about language proficiency or image. Which party will produce the greatest good for the greatest number?
Taking a broad view of "good," the answer is clearly Mr. Dion.
[updated Wed Sep 17 09:39:05 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 09:39
Foxer
Dion hasn't agreed to any proportional representation and teh Liberals haven't exactly been a pillar on the 'rights' front either.
Dion will destroy the lives of many families with his policies.
How can you possibly suggest he's the 'good' choice? Especially when it seems most canadians would disagree with you.
[updated Wed Sep 17 15:30:33 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 15:30
gretag
I don't agree that cap and trade doesn't work. It is not as efficient, it takes longer to set up, and it can be abused. However properly administered and regulated, it can work provided the system is large enough. It will work better for the EU than for Canada (because of the size), although they have been working on it for a decade and it still is being adjusted. The US is currently considering a flexible cap and trade designed to capture some of the benefits of a carbon tax.
[updated Wed Sep 17 09:57:01 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 09:57
Foxer
The devil's in the details bernie, as always.
[updated Wed Sep 17 15:31:13 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 15:31
Foxer
Why do we have to pay bernie?
Seriously - we might need to change our ways (tho what good it will do is highly questionable, canada just isn't that big a polluter on the world scale) but that doesn't mean we have to trash our economy to do it.
And harper has already 'done' things. In fact, canada's emmissions are already down in the last few years, and while i wouldn't give harper all the credit (higher energy costs contribute to that on their own) he certainly has played a role.
I'd like to see pollution of EVERY type reduced (this religious dedication to carbon is a huge mistake in my books) but as you say - incrementally, over time, and crippling taxes are not part of that solution.
You have to make it easier for people to change. If you start taking food from their tables - you'll have a backlash and do more harm than good.
Now here's a question for you - dion was in charge of kyoto while the liberal gov't allowed emmissions to rise. What makes you think he'll implement a plan that will actually get results now?
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:12:51 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:12
Foxer
Gretag - there might be some validity to your points if we were discussing this in 1995. Gas was cheap, world economic growth was strong, and canada was in a building/growth phase.
But now - it makes ZERO sense to have a carbon tax. I appreciate that you like the american report suggesting it's a good idea, but there are a TON of conflicting reports suggesting another model is better, etc etc. It's not like there's universal agreement. And right now - Energy is at an all time high price wise. So - what is the POINT of taxing it more? When gas was low, THAT might have made some sense. But now?
Car companies that have to pay the billion dollars in tax this will cost ontario won't "go green" - they'll just move. They can't build cars here economically. They will move production to mexico, give up on 'green', and the pollution will be even worse.
And while we're 'calling a spade a spade' - carbon taxes have only worked if the tax cut goes DIRECTLY to those who were taxed in the first place. That means it places no financial burden on them - but gives them an opportunity to SAVE money if they 'go green'.
Dions tax does not do that. Most people will lose money. It will be more expensive to live. There is no chance to 'save' money - if you're lucky and spend a wad of cash, you might get back to where you were.
That is NOT a good model. That is a HORRIBLE model.
Frankly i'm not that fond of 'cap and trade' either. If anything - it should be cap and tax. Go over 'x' amount of emmissions and you'll pay a hefty tax. Start the cap high, and lower it over time. Give companies a chance to adjust and 'green up' as they replace gear instead of forcing them to spend money they don't have or take their business elsewhere.
And unfortunately - harper didn't lie. It really is a tax on everything. There is nothing you buy anywhere that didn't get there by truck at some point, and truckers are already near death with prices where they are now. 7 cents more per litre will wipe out a lot of good honest folk trying to make a living. There is no way to affordably upgrade a truck to reduce costs of fuel by that much - you need x amount of power to climb a hill with a full load, and nothing changes that. It's not like you or me who could buy a smaller car.
Electricity goes up, gasoline will go up (sorry, there's just no way around that),. and the economy will suffer.
And worse - dion hasn't even finished the plan. It's not even a 'plan' yet - the details haven't even been worked out.
Harper is going to win the election - and that means canada wins.
Here is the truth about dion's plan - had dion gotten in and implemented it, our economy would take a seriuos down turn and people would suffer. Any recovery would be slow or non-existant. People would then turn their back on 'environmentalism' and look just to putting food on the table. The 'carbon tax' would get tossed by the next gov't and it would become impossible in the future to talk about 'climate change' in an election if you wanted to get elected.
Instead - we'll have something reasonable and the already high price of energy will be getting people to change where they can as it is. And the discussions about where to go from here will continue.
That is just the way it works in the real world. You can't ask people to starve in the name of 'global warming' - the fact is a lot of people don't really believe that the warming is entirely man made in the first place - and we all know if we turned out the lights and canada didn't emit a single carbon molecule, it would be meaningless in the face of what china and other countries are doing. A tiny drop in the bucket.
So you can thank your lucky starts dion has no chance. He would have done more harm than good. IF he'd kept his word.
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:04:28 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:04
gretag
Foxer, the whole point to a carbon tax is to tilt the economic balance so it makes sense to look for conservation measures and alternatives to fossil fuels, which are, over the long run, going to rise in price no matter what you do, because they are a limited resource and every year another 60 million people in China and India are acquiring cars for the first time.
Taxing carbon puts money in the hands of the government, so they can return money on income and investment and the economics of that encourages everyone to use less fossil fuels. Then as oil and gas prices rise with increasing demand, we will not only be partially protected from that, but we can also export the technology to other countries. Sweden recently signed a large wind energy deal with China.
This will actually help our economy adapt to increasing fuel prices whereas doing nothing doesn't.
[updated Wed Sep 17 12:35:29 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 12:35
Foxer
Greg - That may well be an overall goal of a 'carbon tax' - but the details are quite different between dion's plan and other places where it's been used.
First off - Carbon tax can work where energy prices are low. If prices are low - there's no interest in moving to more expensive 'green' tech.
But - when energy prices are high, you already achieve that effect. When energy prices increase rapidly, people don't have time to adapt, and it becomes an economic hardship which LOWERS peoples' ability to switch to green tech.
Combining rapidly increasing energy prices such as we have now with sudden application of taxes is a recepie for disaster.
Further - you hit on an important point - where this has been used successfully gov'ts take the tax money and give it directly back to teh people it was taken from - their tax and costs burden stays the same, but the 'weight' has been 'shifted' to energy. This means people have the same amount of money but now there's an opportunity to actually SAVE money by going green where they can. IF they can't, well they're in no worse shape than they were.
Dion's plan is a 'wealth shift' - it spends the money, it doesn't give it back. That means the average person has less money. If the world economy was strong right now that might still work - but at the moment that could kill our economy and that will backfire - people will blame 'the fight for global warming' on their hard times and stop caring.
And it's worse for business. Did you know trucker's are going bankrupt at record levels? And i assume you're aware of the airlines problems. And those are just two sectors, but they will be immediately and significantly hurt by this at a time where they're barely hanging on.
This is NOT the answer. It will weaken our economy and will do damage that will last for a generation. And you can bet when people are watching the bank sell off their home theyr'e going to blame 'the environment' for it. And then the subject goes out the window and we'll see NO action.
This is why the libs didn't tackle the issue when they were in power. They knew that people would hold it against them if they tried to live up to kyoto.
This is not the answer. It's last decades answer to this decades' problem.
[updated Wed Sep 17 12:50:18 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 12:50
Foxer, read this about the largest demonstration in Alaskan history, mostly by women who disagree with the would-be VP on everything. And understand why we don't trust Mr. Harper
"According to John Amato over at C&L, Alaskan right-wing talk radio host Eddie Burke exposed the names of this rally's organizers on the air. And he called those who protested: "socialist, baby killing, maggots."
This is the Republican way. And the Tory way. If you don't understand that these mass media parrots are corporate lackies, bought and paid for (prostitutes might be a more accurate descriptor), then keep dishing out your hard-earned cash to patently unworthy causes and (already rich) scam artists.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Did I mention a sucker is born every minute?
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:32:50 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:32
Foxer
AHHH - i see, so Harper is no longer a 'bush' clone - he's a 'palin' clone :) :)
That is truly desperate and mildly despicable.
Dion called alberta a 'cash cow'. Now - that's something HE actually said.
The libearls stole millions of taxpayers dollars, as we've posted about before.
Those are things the liberals here in canada have done. we don't have to pretend they're someone else in another country to see what the liberals are like - and you wonder why nobody trusts them?
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:41:55 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:41
Foxer, you call me "despicable" so I'll be signing off now. Too bad. You made some great points, however misguided.
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:57:39 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:57
Foxer
Well I can't blame you - it's pretty hard to argue against the truth and i'd leave if i were in your shoes too.
As to 'despicable' - well we won't get into all the things you've called me, but yeah - trying to say that stephen harper is now Palin was mildly despicable. It's the kind of cheap personal attacks we've come to expect from the Liberal party. Of course - you're still better than your associate TPQ who insists we're all nazi's. That was REALLY despicable.
[updated Wed Sep 17 11:17:55 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 11:17
Adieu, Foxer, and may peace be with you. I'll miss you over the next four weeks.
Too bad you didn't want to deal in facts. Too bad you chose to misrepresent and deceive whoever reads this.
Now, buzz off.
[updated Wed Sep 17 11:29:16 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 11:29
Foxer
ROFL - i've presented nothing BUT facts. :)
I understand why you feel the need to put your fingers back in your ears and not speak to anyone who doesn't already agree with you.
Feel free to come back after dion has lost the election and explain why his party is tossing him out if he was such a great leader.
[updated Wed Sep 17 11:31:28 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 11:31
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
I see another poster has enough of the garbage you bring here 24/7..........get the hint???...
[updated Thu Sep 18 05:32:07 -0400 2008]
18 Sep 05:32
Foxer
LOL - oh i knew long before coming here that if liberals hear a truth they don't like, they just stop listening :)
[updated Thu Sep 18 10:07:30 -0400 2008]
18 Sep 10:07
TPQ, I can count on one hand the number of times I've flagged a post on this site as inappropriate. It's just not my way. I don't think the other (dark) side plays by the same rules.
[updated Thu Sep 18 00:15:32 -0400 2008]
18 Sep 00:15
apukwa
There you go! "Not tax neutral" is a fine way of stating your position without sounding juvenile and changing names of policies, parties, etc. If you just state it that way, without all the inanity people might take you seriously.
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:08:35 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:08
westerner (suspended)
It is still a Green Tax Shaft. If it looks like a shaft it is a shaft! Face reality.
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:13:27 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:13
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
You are correct.... a shaft is a shaft and we are getting a big one from harper. he is shafting us all wit lies and phoney innuendos, tasteless attack ads and outright lies while he hides every cabinet minister from sight.
We are getting the biggest shaft ever from government
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:56:16 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:56
Foxer
I don't think you understand what the word 'innuendo' means. I'd look that one up before using it any more. I think you just picked it because it sounds 'nasty' but i haven't heard any 'innuendo' from any side in this campaign. They pretty much say what they're thinking.
And how is harper 'shafting' anyone - you think perhaps pregnant women don't deserve UI benefits? It's wrong to buy a home and get a discount? Which promise precisely is the problem?
[updated Wed Sep 17 10:06:25 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 10:06
larryl
apukwa. If you want intelligent conversation you got into the wrong group. You will soon find out who to talk to and where there is no name calling. Stick around long enough and the frustration will soon have doing the same thing. Some of the new people have intelligent points to make and haven't been here long enough to be sucked into the insults and name calling. Even I have been have fallen into the trap with certain individuals but just stopped responding to them . Have fun.
[updated Tue Sep 16 20:13:56 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 20:13
larryl, it's hard to withstand the constant barrage of name-callers we suffer. Nik is perhaps too lax on their side, or perhaps we don't protest enough. I hardly ever rate/complain about anyone.
That kind of treatment wears off in time. We get thicker skins and the real audience, disinterested third parties, get a bird's eye view of the the real (wo)man.
Compared to the name-callers. we look pretty as a picture
[updated Wed Sep 17 16:57:37 -0400 2008]
17 Sep 16:57
TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)
To those who continue to believe in the fantasy of the Libs so called broken GST promise of 1993 I would suggest reading page 5 of this CDHowe Report, linked below, that is also not that complimentary of the GST as run by the current government.
http://www.cdhowe.org/pdf/Commentary_273.pdf
[updated Tue Sep 16 18:58:26 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 18:58
9 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Anybody But Harper. Read what James Laxer has to say about the financial meltdown in the USA:
"Black Monday showed, for those who needed the lesson, that the kind of people Stephen Harper thinks are so good at running the world are not only greedy, they’re world class incompetents.
Harper and his pals, south and north of the border, believe in the wondrous power of de-regulated capitalism to make the economy soar by getting stale, old government out of the way. That is, of course, until the new financial instruments they invent, designed to turn billions of sow’s ears into silk purses, land them in big trouble. Then they scurry to government, quaking with fear, begging for the handouts their friends in office are only too happy to provide. Harper will use the financial crisis to reward his corporate friends and punish the rest of us."
Mr. Laxer is bang on.
[updated Tue Sep 16 21:41:40 -0400 2008]
16 Sep 21:41
44 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.