Sunday, May 19, 2013 - (47082 comments)

LP 35, CP 33, NDP 17, BQ 8, GP 7 - Harper leads as best PM (New Nanos Poll)

1000 comments Latest by Foxer

The latest Nanos poll completed Wednesday night shows that the Liberals and Conservatives are gripped in a deadlock (LP 35%, CP 33%, NDP 17%, BQ 8%, GP 7%).

Of note, in the province of Quebec, support for the Bloc has decreased by nine points in the last quarter, with the NDP picking up most of that support.

On the best Prime Minister front, Stephen Harper still enjoys a significant advantage over Stephane Dion.

A potential election poses risks for both the Conservatives and the Liberals. Prime Minister Harper seems ready to risk his mandate while his party is tied with the Liberals. Liberal leader Stephane Dion has not been embraced by Canadians.

Methodology Polling between August 20th and August 27th, 2008. (Random Telephone Survey of 1,000 Canadians, 18 years of age and older). A survey of 1,000 Canadians is accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20.

Ballot Question: For those parties you would consider voting for federally, could you please rank your top two current local preferences? (Committed Voters Only - First Choice)

The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the previous Nanos Research Survey completed in May 2008.

Committed Voters - Canada (N=846, MoE ± 3.4%, 19 times out of 20)

  • Liberal Party 35% (+1)
  • Conservative Party 33% (NC)
  • NDP 17% (+2)
  • BQ 8% (-3)
  • Green Party 7% (-1)
  • (*Note: Undecided 16%)

Committed Voters - Quebec (N=214, MoE ± 6.8%, 19 times out of 20)

  • BQ 31% (-9)
  • Conservative Party 25% (+2)
  • Liberal Party 24% (+2)
  • NDP 13% (+8)
  • Green Party 7% (-2)
  • (*Note: Undecided 14%)

Best PM Question: Of the following individuals, who do you think would make the best Prime Minister? [Read and Rotate]

Canada (N=1,000, MoE ± 3.1%, 19 times out of 20)

  • Stephen Harper 36% (+2)
  • Jack Layton 17% (+1)
  • Stephane Dion 15% (NC)
  • Gilles Duceppe 5% (-2)
  • Elizabeth May 4% (-3)
  • None/ Unsure 23% (NC)

The detailed tables with the regional sub-tabs and methodology are posted on our new polling portal website at: www.nanosresearch.com.

It looks like we are headed to an election. What are your thoughts on what will happen?

Cheers, NJN

Remember to rate the views of others - to allow us to recognize the opinion leaders in our national conversation.

Individuals with the top ratings make it to Nik’s Leaderboard.

Reply to Topic

Most Read Comments

Highest Rated Comments

How devastating must be the Conservative internal polls if these latest Nanos nu... more

gerry l (British Columbia) 29 Aug 04:40

Let me get this straight. Mr. Harper intends to cause an election in violation ... more

rsharp (Québec) 29 Aug 03:51

First off the personal numbers for Dion continue to reflect the effects of attac... more

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments) (Ontario) 29 Aug 06:30

Plus, Harper wants to avoid handing Dion momentum by short circuiting the 4 bi-e... more

gerry l (British Columbia) 29 Aug 14:28

Hello Larryl: Yes, our Canadian political scene is an unfortunate mess. An il... more

Tom Good (British Columbia) 29 Aug 16:15

Hello Foxer:---Yes, you are right about a change in leadership and I see that as... more

Tom Good (British Columbia) 29 Aug 16:18

Comments

graham murray

We're headed to the polls, right enough, despite Stephen Harper's lame explanations for mangling the spirit if not also the letter of his law to set a four-year election schedule. And it is surreal for him to tell the Tuk residents providing a human backdrop for the clips offered for broadcast in Wednesday's TV news that the distribution of seats in the Commons is not likely to change much. Let's put this nonsense aside until we've all fully vented on the dreadful summer so maany Canadians have endured. I don't want to engage the next federal election until I've exhausted my frustration with incessant low-pressure systems interspersed with ferocious monsoons.

[updated Fri Aug 29 02:37:08 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 02:37

7 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Richard_thumb rsharp

Let me get this straight. Mr. Harper intends to cause an election in violation of his own law and even though he expects the same (minority government) result. Could he perhaps realize that things would only get worse if Parliament resumed, with further scrutiny of his government's many scandals and failed, neocon policies?

I've just watched Obama's acceptance speech and it is clear as day that change is indeed coming to America and to the world, and for the better. That Mr. Harper is yesterday's man will be increasingly evident.

Who will make the best Prime Minister? Depends how the question is framed. I think in terms of the (wo)man with the best judgement, the most trustworthy, the greatest respect for others and, most importantly, the most competent team.

The mainstream media will continue to harp on Mr. Harper's alleged "leadership" skills, however misplaced. .A lot of good it's done us: war not peace, environmental stonewalling, fewer resources and rights for the disadvantaged, the refusal to use government as a countervailing force in recessionary times, blind adherence to corporate agenda of all sorts, etc.

But the Liberals will be fighting the NDP, Green and Bloc parties for the progressive vote vs. a united right wing monolith, including an overwhelmingly pro-Harper mainstream media. The opposition parties appear incapable of even simple deals in support of what's most important - defeating the Conservatives. That is why Mr. Harper's prediction of another minority is likely true.

That will be a shame because it forestalls the hope and change we so desperately need, too

[updated Fri Aug 29 03:51:46 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 03:51

92 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Regina Beach Boy

""including an overwhelmingly pro-Harper mainstream media. ""

LOL, That was a joke right, either that or you just don't read the Toronto Star, the G&M, the Hill Times, the Ottawa Citizen and the ultimate Harper Hating unashamedly socialist network, the CBC.

[updated Fri Aug 29 09:43:06 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 09:43

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

The attack ads leveled the playing field somewhat but the Libs will counter that in an election campaign when people are really listening. Haprer will be driven to distraction by the Libeal ads which will be designed to cast him in a very dark light as opposed to the Liberals and open government,etc.

[updated Fri Aug 29 09:49:30 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 09:49

Foxer

war not peace? The LIBERALS sent us to afghanistan and to kandahar, and it was a liberal lead committee that suggested we stay there now. Environmental stonewalling? The libs signed kyoto - then let emmissions go UP 20 percent. They've gone DOWN under the CPC. Fewer resources and rights for the disadvantaged? The CPC has increased spending AND transfers to the provinces. The Libs slashed social transfers to the provinces.

I think you need a new history book :)

[updated Fri Aug 29 11:02:04 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 11:02

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

So. It was the Liberals who also sent troops to Kosovo and other places but they didn't become warriors in the Harper/Bush mode.
You have overplayed Kyoto and there is no gain there for the tories whose program will cost more than the green shift. Its just well hidden as is everything Harper does.

The tories have bribed the provinces like they did in quebec just prior to the last election there. giving money out w/o programs attached is totally wrong and stupid. The Libs slashed social programs to recover from Mulroney's follies..The new medicare plan implemented by Martin has stood up through out harper's reign.

[updated Fri Aug 29 11:24:03 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 11:24

Foxer

Yes they did - they said right off the bat that khandahar would be a combat mission, specifically to attack and wipe out the taliban.

Overplayed kyoto? They promised to reduce emmissions and it went UP! And we're not just talking about one year here. And the green plan will be FAR more expensive.

The tories weren't in power just prior to the last election. How did they 'bribe' quebec before the election sitting in opposition? And how is it a 'bribe' to give the provinces more money? That's what they need to run their social programs.

And it wasn't mulroney's follies - it was trudeaus. Thats' the guy who racked up the huge debt we couldn't afford to pay off.

And why is it 'stupid' to give the provinces money to spend as the people of that province sees fit? I take it you're worried the provinces will spend it on 'beer and popcorn'? People don't need a federal gov't to tell them what's best for their province, that's why we have provincial gov'ts.

[updated Fri Aug 29 11:47:38 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 11:47

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

I notice you ignored Paul martin's medicare bill..typical. Thar has set up medicare transfers to the provinces in a very constructive manner,so much so, that not one province bitches about it.

As for your comment about giving money with no strings attached to the provinces being ok.....that's pretty typical for a populist supporter..economics mean nothing. Quebecers got a gift from the ROC with no strings attached just prior to their last election. That pisses off most people with any common sense. But, I digress, since you are a populist tory who admires a PM that lies bribes and launders money as well as soon to break his own electoral law that he designed to stop exactly what he is doing now.

[updated Fri Aug 29 14:14:32 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 14:14

Foxer

What's to ignore? We've still got massive medical issues in canada, and paul martin still slashed health care funding to a fraction of what it once was.

And the provinces are all bitching about being underfunded for medical care. For many of them it's close to 50 percent of their provincial budget. Didn't you pay attention to the last premier's meeting?

It's amazingly rediculous to suggest that if the provinces budget the money that somehow there's no 'economics' behind it. Which is a prime example of why the liberals will lose this election - everybody's sick and tired of hearing the liberals say they are the only possible gov't in the world that can successfully tell people what they should be doing. People get upset when quebec gets a 'gift' and no one else does, but realistically most people (including quebec) are quite happy to see a fair division of money to the provinces. The provincial gov'ts can decide where that money is best spent to address their needs - only a liberal would think we need someone from quebec to tell british columbians what they need, or someone from ontario to tell the atlantics what programs they should have.

And the only party who's had people convicted of bribery and money laundering is the liberal gov't. :) So - if dion wants to run on that, i've got no problem with it :)

[updated Fri Aug 29 16:07:42 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 16:07

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

You keep on reading the facist stuff and I'll read the real stuff. Paul MARTIN has been credited by the CDHowe institute and the Conference Board for his medicare bill. I'll 'take their word over yours,or Harper the liar, any day.
The Liberals are the only possible government to keep Canada whole. They don't become whores for the separatists and keep them in check unlike the stupidity of Mulroney and the moves Harper makes to appease them which does nothing to make them more Canadian. Dions law did just that and effectively cut off the separatists at the knees.

You can have the feds distribute equalization money in a haphazard manner if you want but when it comes mostly from my province and my pocket I want it done responsibily. Downloading a la flaherty or freeloading is for dumb populists who have no interest in the economy but simply want to build walls around the provinces.
The Libs have not had one of their own convicted of anything;not one MP or minister. However, they also have never had a PM accept a cash bribe while in office. Mulroney did as did Sir John A. MacDonald. The Libs have never been accused of buying an election as the conservatives now are.


[updated Fri Aug 29 16:24:48 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 16:24

Regina Beach Boy

""They don't become whores for the separatists ""

No the Liberals don't, they just become exclusive whores for the city of Toronto

""The Libs have never been accused of buying an election as the conservatives now are.""

No, but the Liberals do steal elections, where's the tens of millions of dollars the Liberals stole from Canadians? Its still missing! I'll tell you where it went, it was spent on the last 3 elections the Liberals won?

Liberals are the same thieves they were before, vote them in and find out again, I know you Liberal supporters are suckers for abuse.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:03:21 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:03

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

,RBB,If you had one fact it would be lonely.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:09:25 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:09

Foxer

Well - it IS actually a fact that liberals used illegal funds to deliberately overspend by huge amounts on elections. We're not talking about a dispute in the rules here where the sums were reported like the cpc - we're talking about a deliberate and purposeful attempt to defraud elections canada and the people of canada.

So he DOES have a point there.

[updated Thu Sep 04 12:21:41 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 12:21

Richard_thumb rsharp

Far as I know, not a single Liberal PM or MP has been found guilty of anything in, well, decades. Am I wrong?

[updated Thu Sep 04 20:40:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 20:40

Foxer

Criminally you mean? Nope, you're right. Of course - neither was mulroney.

I think most people know better tho. The system protects them pretty well.

But we still know the party received large amounts of cash under the table (literally in this case) from illegal sources for the purposes of spending money not allowed under law and hiding that fact. That simply is the truth. That was verified in court.

So - still a valid point.

[updated Fri Sep 05 01:03:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 01:03

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

rsharp...the only reason there are no criminal charges yet against any cons is the fact they have stonewalled the system with diversionary tactics. Haprer's lawsuit against the Libs is just another part of that tactic.

[updated Fri Sep 05 19:51:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 19:51

Foxer

Facist stuff? So - the premiers of the provinces are facists now?

Paul martin was severely critisized for his cuts to health care for many years. I guess the medical boards are facists too?

The libearls will tear the country apart. They damn near already did once.

You seem to feel your province is incapable of handling money. Well if it is that'd be your problem. Elect a better gov't. The liberals don't know crap about my province that's for sure.

Umm - mulroney wasn't actually convicted of anything either. And the only person who says he did is a convicted fraud artist fighting extradition. So - once again, your hypocracy is showing.

And we know that money did flow back into the liberal party.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:09:06 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:09

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Mulroney has admitted he accepted the money while in office. You and RBB need to join forces and see if you can both get one fact right.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:11:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:11

Foxer

Not while he was prime minister, and numerous liberals and pc's have accepted money for things while they're in office as mp's. There's nothing wrong with that - it's not uncommon or illegal. The question was whether he accepted it as prime minister.

Hell - Paul Martin is being paid by numerous groups right now and he's still an MP. Admits it freely. And why not - there's nothing illegal about it.

Guess maybe it's not us that needs to have our facts checked, eh? :) :) :)

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:34:58 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:34

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

How come the only commons inquiry is over the muldonn stuff?

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:48:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:48

Foxer

muldonn? What are you talking about?

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:59:46 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:59

Richard_thumb rsharp

Far as I know, Mulroney accepted unmarked cash while he was PM from an arms profiteer, and stowed it away unreported to the tax man. Uh, I think that's illegal.

[updated Fri Sep 05 12:31:22 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 12:31

Foxer

And how do you know that? Mulroney has never been convicted of it - he says he didn't do it (he accepted the money later) and the ONLY proof we have is the word of a convicted con artist.

So - no illegal activities at all. At least none he's been convicted for.

Likewise - several folks in the adscam incident directly accuse Chretien and other liberals of knowing what was going on and supporting it. But - no proof.

Frankly i think mulroney was corrupt, and i think chretien knew EXACTLY what was going on with adscam.

But - if you're going to play the 'no convicted' card - neither of them was.

[updated Fri Sep 05 12:41:39 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 12:41

larryl

Sharp. You were probably away when I told TPQ to stop confusing people with the truth. You are not allowed to do that here. Lyin Brain's own admission that he accepted cash, $225,000 , is not proof enough for some. It was not reported to the tax man until later so that was obviously tax evasion but that is not a crime if you declare it later is it? If Pinnochio allowed the Mulroney/ Schreiber investigation to complete it's report , his backroom advisor could end up in the history books. The first P.M. in our history to go to jail for corruption . How would that look to the voting public before an election?

[updated Fri Sep 05 12:57:25 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 12:57

Richard_thumb rsharp

I have always had a low opinion of Mr. Mulroney, but he was much more worthy a man than Mr. Harper. The latter is an ideologue, incapable of pragmatism.

So we witness his stonewalling on the environment, his trivial changes to the criminal justice system, his cutbacks on rights and resources to everyday Canadians and on and on. This guy is so yesterday, so obviously a puppet on a string, that I can't believe he's out in front.

[updated Fri Sep 05 13:24:48 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 13:24

Richard_thumb rsharp

It was General Hillier who got us into Afghanistan, promising Paul Martin there would still be sufficient troops for legitimate Canadian military intervention.... peacekeeping. Hillier was either incompetent or a liar.

The Liberals tried to cut Canadian losses and did the best they could under the circumstances. Only an ideological fool like Harper can't see the facts and the truth.

Which are, when you're digging yourself into a hole, stop digging.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:05:23 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:05

Foxer

Uhh - we went to afghanistan under Chretien. Not martin.

The liberals not only didn't try to cut our losses - they committed us to a combat mission inside a combat zone. That all happened before harper took over.

And it was a liberal lead committee that just recommended we stay there. Harper accepted all the terms of their reccomendations.

So.. you'd have to be pretty delusional to claim it was somehow the cpc's fault we're fighting in afghanistan.

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:21:20 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:21

Richard_thumb rsharp

Hillier's lies got us into the mess "to kill scumbags," n'est-ce pas? Harper wanted to send more troops to get killed or maimed, for nothing, true or not? This guy supported the war against Iraq for Pete's sake.

Who's delusional?

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:51:16 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:51

Foxer

First question. No. Hiller wasn't actually in charge of the military at that point. We went in 2001 - i believe he took over in 2005? So no - he didn't get us into this mess at all. We were already there for quite a while. Years actually.

Second question - no. Our involvement has stayed the same. The only 'new troops' sent were about 200 troops that were needed to operate the extra gear that the liberal committee recommended. They'll run the drones and choppers that the liberal lead committee said we should have.

You're right tho - harper did support bush's war on iraq. Which was stupid if you ask me. Mind you - turns out Chretien actually did offer troops for that war, but was told it wasn't necessary. That got confirmed when the US envoy at the time wrote his memoirs.

But we're talking about afghanistan.

So - if you feel hiller got us into afghanistan, or that harper was the one who suggested more troops - then while 'delusional' may be somewhat harsh you were certainly misinformed :)

[updated Fri Aug 29 18:08:35 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 18:08

Richard_thumb rsharp

No. I stand by my position. Hillier lied and Canadians died. About the scope and duration of Canada's war-making, for starters. About reconstruction. This man was a total incompetent, notwithstanding his media image.

[updated Thu Sep 04 20:15:37 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 20:15

MRM

rsahrp you are just a left wing nut who has no idea of what you speak. To accuse a man of Rick Hillier’s stature of purposely lying and causing the needless deaths of soldiers is the lowest most contemptible thing I have ever heard. I hope that all those out there whether they are Liberal, NDP, Bloc, Conservative or Green will condemn your disgusting comments.

[updated Thu Sep 04 20:38:11 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 20:38

Richard_thumb rsharp

There is nothing more contemptible than risking the lives of others for petty reasons. In pushing Canada into this fruitless war, General Hillier did that, exactly. Rah Rah George Bush? Give me a break.

Afghanistan, for Pete's sake! What national interest is at stake? Are we improving or worsening our safety and security?

You call be a "contemptible" "nut." Given your wildly irrational and radical view of international affairs and law, maybe that's a compliment.

[updated Thu Sep 04 20:51:45 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 20:51

Foxer

Hiller WAS NOT THE GUY when we went to afghanistan! For heaven's sake - you might as well blame bob rae, it makes about as much sense!

[updated Fri Sep 05 01:00:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 01:00

Richard_thumb rsharp

A direct quote from some Macleans' site.

"Given his intense attachment to Afghanistan, it's little wonder Hillier pushed for the chance to shift Canada's focus from the relative safety of Kabul to much more challenging Kandahar. Although the decision was approved by Martin and sustained by Harper, Hillier was the driving force behind Canada's mission to take on the violent Taliban heartland. "He's the architect of that," Lang says, "and he's the most outspoken voice for it in Canada." The job has certainly needed a passionate champion: from 2002 to 2005, Canada lost eight troops in Afghanistan; 74 have died since the move to Kandahar in 2006.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013228

As I said, Hillier pushed for this war.... to "kill scumbags," remember? This might astound you but I believe he is the worst CDS we've had in living memory. Because being CDS is not a popularity contest. It's a life or death job.

[updated Sun Sep 07 15:44:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 15:44

MRM

rsharp - First, you are still wrong about Hillier "In pushing Canada into this fruitless war" because he was not CDS when we went. Secondly, the war is not fruitless and third, one McCleans article from a left wing columnest does not make it true. Your last post is meaningless and you would not know a good CDS from a bad one if your life depended on it. Oh yeah yours never will I guess? With the possible exception of Hillier whose actions likely saved us from terrorist attacks at home and may well have actually saved your ungrateful life. We will never know?

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:13:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:13

larryl

Sharp. You are still wasting your time trying to convince the expert and the war monger. They will probably ask for a copy of the magazine as proof. Nothing else will do.

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:17:31 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:17

Richard_thumb rsharp

Please read what I quoted and if there are any factual errors please provide. What is in dispute? How do you know the source is left wing? .

How many years must we fight an offensive war in Afghanistan before you will be convinced that maybe it's a losing cause? I mourn for our fallen soldiers just as much as you. Please remove your head from the sand.

And I know what makes a good CDS, sir. I'll take that one offline,

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:36:35 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:36

MRM

rsharp – OK here is what is factually wrong with your post.

1. Gen Hillier does not have an “intense attachment to Afghanistan” He had a mission to accomplish there and a great respect for the Afghan people.

2. Hillier did not push “for the chance to shift Canada's focus from the relative safety of Kabul to much more challenging Kandahar.” The request came from NATO to the Liberal Govt.

3. He is not, by far, the worst CDS we have had in living memory. There is a long line ahead of him in that regard.

4. He is not the Architect of the mission. That would be LGen Leslie, Commander of the Army. He is an outspoken advocate of it though.

5. Hillier did not “push for this war”. We were already in it when he became CDS. He just did the best job he could to do the govt’s bidding as was his duty to do.

[updated Sun Sep 07 17:25:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 17:25

Richard_thumb rsharp

MRM, Hillier pushed to escalate Canada's involvement fronm defensive to offensive, in Kandahar. You can't deny it, no matter your spin.

Give up! Let the facts speak for themselves. That's your mantra. Live by it.

[updated Sun Sep 07 19:13:18 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 19:13

MRM

larryl - Not sure which one I am, the expert or the war monger but pretty sure that I am one of them. Boy for someone who gets up on their high horse and whines and chatizes others about being respectful and using others correct names you sure don't practice what you preach! Perhaps we should come up with a name for you? I know, how about The Hypocrite? Seems to fit perfectly don't you think?

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:45:11 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:45

Foxer

Rsharp - I've always believed that it's important to be honest in life. It seems you're not even being honest with yourself and that's not a healthy thing. read the quote again - the MOST you could accuse hiller of is being aggressive and being excited about going to kandahar. He sure didn't send us to kandahar. and he sure didn't get us into the war.

And fair enough - if you want to say he's a jerk because he likes killing taliban insurgents, you'd have a point. Not a good point i'd say, but at least it would be based in reality. This guy likes to fight, and he clearly likes it when the bad guys get squashed.

But you stretch it WAY the hell out of reality or sanity when you make statements like Hiller pushed us into the war, which was your earlier comment.

And your claims saying hiller somehow lied about how many troops we could send there.. he didn't get any new troops or have anything to do with that decision. So - that whole line of reasoning is also nonsense.

So once again about 90 percent of what you claimed is turning out not to be true. And that would seen to be because you take something that's true and blow it so out of proportion that it ceases to have meaning.

It's also worth noting that the decision to move our troops was a political one made with little consultation with hiller. The liberals agreed to move us into the combat zone, and the most hiller did was say we could do the job.

Which we did

Of the 74 deaths we suffered, only about 3 or 4 were from combat losses. The rest were from accidents, mines, etc. during convoy duty. We went years without combat losses.

Now - if you want to say hiller is a bloodthirsty jerk or something you might scrape up an argument. But you appear to be trying to ABSOLVE the liberals of their part in it, and blame someone else.

The liberals sent our boys there. The libearls put our men in harms way (in equipment at the time which was older than most of our soldiers). And the liberals thought we could handle the job.

And we did. We've taken very few losses, we've inflicted major losses on the enemy.

Don't kid yourself. The liberals said when they sent our boys there - 'make no mistake, this is a combat mission'. They knew there would be fighting and some of our boys weren't coming home. But SOMEBODY had to go - and Canada stepped up.

Hiller planned the operation, and was successful. The military loved him because he kept the boys alive and the enemy dead. But you can't go to war without expecting losses.

Blame the libs if you want to blame someone. But really - there's no one to blame. Someone had to go, and we went. We've done well and can be proud of our boys. But there was never any chance we wouldn't suffer losses - even the libs knew that.

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:32:20 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:32

MRM

Foxer - It seems that the PM was right. The left is getting nasty already, they must have gotten their talking points with their last pay cheque?

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:46:50 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:46

Foxer

They don't have much else. The fact is the polls are all clear - the majority of canadians think harper is a good pm, and certainly the best pm.

The election caught dion off guard - for all his many claims he's had a plane lined up and the campaign was ready to go it's clear he wasn't prepared at all.

He's forced to run on the green tax, but he knows he needs something else, so he seems to be dusting off paul martin's campaign and running with that.

Which he knows is weak. So really - his main stratagy is to try to scare people about harper. Tell enough lies, spread enough 'hints' about 'hidden agendas' - try to compare him to bush and regan and what the heck, hitler if he can manage it.

The hope is that people will be scared enough not to want harper to get a majority and vote for dion by default, even tho he hasn't got anything to offer they want.

It won't work - it's going to work against him. But obviously, some of dion's people have picked up on that concept and are trying to run with it.

The problem is people know harper now. And while they don't love him, they like him. The real question is simply will they give him a majority?

I notice a poll out in the last day or so that says the majority of canadians would PREFER a majority gov't - so they might just decide to give him one.

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:58:07 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:58

Richard_thumb rsharp

Boxer, this will take time but your irrational remarks warrant the effort.

1. Thank you for calling me dishonest with myself. I have accordingly asked myself whether this is so and can assure you the answer is an unequivocal no.

2. General Hillier was the driving force behind escalating Canada's role in Afghanistan from defensive to offensive, in Kandahar. That you can state that the most he was to state we can do the job is an outright lie.

3. Blame the Liberals all you want. That party essentially minimized Canadian soldiers' exposure in the face of fierce American pressure while the Harper government is caving the other way.

4. It is a fact that the Liberals (and the NDP, Bloc and Green parties) have better ideas and ways to extricate us from Afghanistan, with honour.

[updated Sun Sep 07 16:55:10 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 16:55

Foxer

LOL - Boxer? Are we down to petty attempts to mispronounce my name now? That's pretty amusing :) you must be getting desperate :)

1 - Well i'm glad to hear that. You certanly WEREN'T being honest with yourself. Your comments showed you hadn't actually thought things thru at all.

2 - The driving force sending us to kandahar was the fact that the people there were cycling out, and we were asked to go - and the liberals agreed. That is simply the truth. The fact that hiller was the primary planner and said we could do the job is not why we went. And he was right.

3 - I don't want to blame anyone. I think we should have gone, I think we did an amazing job. I think we did far better than the americans would have done had they gone. I think we have every reason to be proud of our efforts there. I think the liberals did the right thing. (they do too obviously, they sent us and have voted to keep us there 2 times now).

You seem to be the one wishing to assign blame. There really isn't any to assign. But - if you want to 'lay blame', then it belongs at the feet of the people who agreed to the request that we go - the libs. They said up front it was a combat deployment. They said there would be loss of life. Nobody pretended otherwise.

4. The liberals voted for our current method - which was recommended by a LIBERAL lead committee who studied the situation.

That is a fact. You can like it or hate it - but it was a group of liberals who said what our current plan should be, and it was voted for BY the liberal party.

The liberals have not actually offered any other plan.

The ndp simply say we should get out immediately. That's not much of a plan, and running away from your responsibilities has no honour whatsoever.

Even barrack obama sees the need and is demanding more troops for afghanistan.

With luck, someone else will take over the combat role. We've done our turn. But we'll still have a lot of work to do training their people and there will always be roadside bombs and fighting till we leave.

And yes soldiers will die. That's what they signed up for - the right to do the job even if it means some losses. The soldiers support the mission.

The fact is we lose more folks to skiing accidents every year than we lose soldiers fighting in a war to keep us safe. Our losses have been light, and the work has borne fruit. The afghani soldiers are reported to be already good and steadily improving and it's said they are not corrupt and are honorable. Canada has done well training them.

I'm not sure why you even want to assign 'blame' in the first place. We had to go - it was the right thing to do. We did our share of the fighting, we'll do our share of the rebuilding. This is what we expect from our gov'ts.

[updated Sun Sep 07 17:13:30 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 17:13

Richard_thumb rsharp

No. I think we expect our government to respect international law, the UN Charter and the sovereignty of nations. I say again, Afghanistan didn't attack the USA or us. We are there to appease the totally failed Bush administration and our safety and security is at increased risk with every day we continue the madness.

We need to get back to peacekeeping. War-mongering a la Harper and Hillier can only do us harm, now and to our children, too.

[updated Sun Sep 07 17:42:07 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 17:42

Foxer

And they did respect international law. The un itself sanctioned the invasion and participated in the formation of the current gov't and rebuilding and continues to do so.

And I say to you again - by international law if you shelter a criminal you share in his crimes. That's law in almost every single country.

They were given fair choice to turn him over, they refused. At that point they became implicated in the attack themselves. Which is why we gave them the chance in the first place.

We are there because the liberals of the day recognized that it was the correct thing to do. So they sent us.

Or are you trying to claim that Chretien was a bush sympathizer?

This is a peacekeeping mission. The war is long over. What we're fighting for now is the peace. Our soldiers have always had to fight during peacekeeping missons.

And if there was 'war mongering' - it would have been the liberals doing it. And those same liberals voted to keep us there now.

Again - facts are important.

[updated Sun Sep 07 17:53:22 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 17:53

MRM

rsharp - Ok what are the other three parties exit strategies?

[updated Sun Sep 07 17:45:01 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 17:45

MRM

rsharp - I didn't think that you could answer that question. You make statements like:

"It is a fact that the Liberals (and the NDP, Bloc and Green parties) have better ideas and ways to extricate us from Afghanistan, with honour."

When you really have no idea what the other parties exit strategy even is. If you did you would know that the Liberal exit strategy is the same as the Tory plan. The NDP plan is just to pack up and leave as fast as possible. Abandoning all of the civilian govt and aid agencies to the Taliban while we negotiate with them and the Bloc has never even stated their plan.

I also note that you are still pedaling that same tired old nonsense about violating the UN Charter and international law even though you know it to be a lie.

You are so not credible you amaze me.

[updated Sun Sep 07 22:54:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 22:54

larryl

Sharp. You can definitely never say anything bad about the military when talking to a guy who served under Hillier or other of our illustrious generals. He is our military expert and has been there . We are allowed to spew our garbage because of their great efforts to protect our freedom. Of course you will never hear of the atrocities committed by our soldiers in foreign lands . The Blue Wall that protects guilty cops is not restricted to only police officers. Our military is planning on sending our soldiers to be trained by Blackwater in the U.S. The largest private army of mercenaries in the world will teach them all about terrorism. They are experts at it. MRM refuses to even admit that is in the works. I think Hillier found out the truth about the Afghan mission and resigned . He was used by the war mongers and fed false information which he passed on to the government. I found some interesting stuff about Lewis { I thought it was Lou} Mackenzie today through my conversation with MRM. I googled his name to check the spelling and came up with astonishing revelations. You should check it out.

[updated Thu Sep 04 21:13:01 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 21:13

Richard_thumb rsharp

I think in terms of who will make a differance. Harper scares me. On matters of war and peace, the environment, the economy, justice, etc. Mr. Harper is the exact opposite of a true conservative.

He wants to watch you wherever you go. To report you to the USA (Bush administration nutbars). Our privacy? Our mobility rights? Screw them.

I've just returned from Europe where I crossed borders w/o any inspection. They have it right. We have it wrong.

[updated Thu Sep 04 21:27:16 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 21:27

larryl

Sharp. The borders of Europe are not there to keep people out The American border is guarded to keep people who despise the U.S. out . Without border crossings people who enter our country from other places could cross into the U.S. and a real attack against the terrorist U.S. could occur at any time. There is a march planned for September 11 by the Truth Movement . If we ever find out the truth about 911 it will be clear why borders are needed.

[updated Thu Sep 04 21:58:10 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 21:58

MRM

I don't normally ask for favours from people I do not know but in this case I will make an exception. Would you both PLEASE campaign openly and very loudly for the Liberals? I would be ever grateful if you would both publicly express your views in support of them. Stephane on the other hand may not be so happy about it but hey that’s democracy right?

[updated Thu Sep 04 22:53:21 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 22:53

larryl

MRM. I am planning on campaigning for anyone but the Conservatives . I did it before on a major artery in my riding with my Vote A.B.C. sign. Privatier Tony went on from that campaign to become a four time loser. He lost provincially , federally and leadership campaigns for the P.C and CPC parties. You should be careful what you ask for if you don' t know what the result might bring. Since he is running in a new riding I might have to go there to make sure he loses again.

[updated Fri Sep 05 09:12:28 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 09:12

MRM

larryl - I am sure that you single handedly changed the outcome of those elections. Make sure you tell the voters all of your positions. I know that that will go a long way to ensuring that a Tory is elected. Oh yeah, don't forget the conspiracy theories.

[updated Fri Sep 05 16:36:06 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 16:36

larryl

MRM. NBF. I am quite sure what I did was not responsible for Privatier Tony going down in flames but it may have convinced enough to vote for someone else that he lost. I like to think I had something to do with getting rid of him but if I had known he would go on to destroy our health care system I would have left him alone. I now believe it is my responsibility to go to Parry Sound- Muskoka to let the voters know who and what he really is. If I was to tell people about 911 I could convince some of them to ask questions about it. The Truth Movement has plans for a march to Ottawa so I won't have to reveal the truth on my own. Do you want more people to hear accusations against our military? Do you want people to know we invaded another country with the U.N.'s permission? Which of my positions should I include?

[updated Fri Sep 05 17:01:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 17:01

MRM

larryl - Include them all, especially the 911 one. That's my favorite. Don't forget the one about the Texas police taking us over.

Glad that you have finally admitted that we invaded Afghanistan with UN permission but I think that you will likely find that this fact will not have much shock value since one would need to be a hermit to not know about it already?

[updated Fri Sep 05 17:20:42 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 17:20

larryl

MRM. NBF. When did I put forth that the Texas police were taking us over. I asked you to read the article about them working in our country without proper authority. My belief along with 45% of Americans is that their government was complicite or had prior knowledge of the 911 attacks and did nothing to prevent it. I am not worried about what people might think of me as long as they find out about Privatier Tony.I doubt very much he would be pleased if and when I show up there.

[updated Fri Sep 05 19:09:27 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 19:09

MRM

larry l - I did read the only article that showed up on Google. It said that they were working on an exchange program with the RCMP. Specifically on an anti drug task force. If you have another article and you want me to read it then provide it.

I am sure that Tony is loosing sleep worrying about whether you will show up or not. Let's let him sweat for a while shall we?

[updated Fri Sep 05 21:02:27 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 21:02

larryl

MRM. Just another of my wacko conspiracy theories. Who better to transport drugs across the border than police officers. Would any border crossing guard bother to check a Texas cop or an R.C.M.P. officer crossing the border. I never said they were here to take us over but they could be involved in the drug trade. You should really investigate some of the conspiracy sites even if just for the entertainment value. Some of them are better than television .

[updated Fri Sep 05 22:32:27 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 22:32

MRM

larryl - That is wacky!

[updated Sun Sep 07 06:24:26 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 06:24

larryl

We are getting way off topic which is probably what Conservatives want since the truth about Pinnochio is better kept hidden.

[updated Fri Sep 05 22:39:22 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 22:39

Foxer

Hiller wasn't there when we went. How hard is that to understand?

[updated Fri Sep 05 00:59:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 00:59

Richard_thumb rsharp

Are you denying that he fought hard to get Canada into this war militarily, on false pretenses? How stupid, uh sorry, misguided can you be?

Hillier was the worst CDS we've had since WW !!, by far. He had no concern for the lives of his soldiers. He was and remains a brute.

[updated Fri Sep 05 13:48:04 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 13:48

Foxer

Hiller had nothing to do with our decision to go to war with afghanistan. And since going, we didn't increase our troop strength by any meaningful amount.

Look - maybe i missed something or maybe i'm forgetting something (it was 7 years ago) - can you post any credible or official sources that demonstrate that hiller had anything to do at all with our decision to go to war in 2001? Our military leader at the time and our prime minister at the time seemed to be the decision makers to me - but by all means post whatever documents or information you have to the contrary.

[updated Fri Sep 05 14:28:06 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 14:28

MRM

Foxer - Forget it, these guys don't do facts. They just shotgun out nonsense that they pick up from thse kooky left wing websites that they view. When you confront them with facts they either don't respond or try and change the subject. In just a few short weeks they will all be eating crow when we have a Tory majority and an NDP official opposition.

[updated Fri Sep 05 16:39:58 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 16:39

MRM

Foxer, Lets not forget the first Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo and the airstrikes against Serbia.

[updated Sat Aug 30 04:53:49 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 04:53

Foxer

I think mulroney was PM for the first gulf war actually - tho the libs of the day did support it. I think you got 'em on the other ones tho :)

[updated Sat Aug 30 05:02:54 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 05:02

MRM

Foxer - You are right the first Gulf War started when the PC's were in power (91) but the Grits did vote to support it and continued to provide forces to enforce the blockade after taking power in 93. I am not criticizing them for doing any of that just pointing out the hypocracy of some of our fellow bloggers on the left who continually moan about the Tories being war mongers when recent history shows that the grits have a much longer resume in that regard.

[updated Sat Aug 30 23:55:35 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 23:55

Foxer

True. They did support it.

There is a tendancy for some of the more 'radical' members of the liberal and other parties to try to promote stereotypes as if they're fact, when of course they're not.

It's the argument of those who have no argument.

Of course the liberals have gone to war as fast and as often as the conservatives. And of course they've hacked social programs as bad or worse than the tories. And they've stepped on as many rights, repressed as many people, etc etc. But the difference is they pretend that never happens and cloak themselves in a sort of self righteous arrogance. And that's what they promote.

[updated Sun Aug 31 00:22:11 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 00:22

MRM

Foxer - You know the Liberal methodology - Run on the left, govern on the right or in other words say anything to get in power then do whatever you want.

[updated Mon Sep 01 23:34:54 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

01 Sep 23:34

Foxer

That has in fact been their modus operandi since trudeau.

[updated Tue Sep 02 00:36:20 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

02 Sep 00:36

Regina Beach Boy

""The attack ads leveled the playing field somewhat but the Libs will counter that in an election campaign""

Thats assuming they have any money to do so, they're having big time difficulties finding contributors just to get out of current debt let alone future debt

[updated Fri Aug 29 11:08:22 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 11:08

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Wrong again beach boy........the Libs, if you count the money raised to pay of leadership debts, have raised more money than the tories by a long shot. That whole fund raising issue needs to be reorgasnized to make it a level playing field.

[updated Fri Aug 29 16:26:55 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 16:26

Foxer

uhh - they're not even remotely close. If you add all the money raised for the leadership candidats, AND all the money raised by the party - and then double that - THEN you're getting close to what the CPC raises.

Look it up. The libs are doing horribly at fundraising.

Oh - and they DID reorganize the fundraising to make it a level playing field. That's WHY the libs are having so much trouble :) They used to be able to sell nice jucy gov't contracts in exchange for donations, and now that they can't do that anymore the NDP is raising almost as much money in donations as they are.

The libs can't survive with 'fair' rules. So - what does that tell you about the libs?

[updated Sat Aug 30 05:06:23 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 05:06

MRM

RBB – Another of parnel’s fabrications. You know his reputation. Can’t believe anything he says. Here is a recent article from the Edm Journal which accurately portrays the sorry state of LPC finances, including the leadership candidate’s loans.

PART ONE OF Liberals literally can't afford an election

Electoral finance reforms, lackluster leaders have left Grits in financial straits

Lorne Gunter, Freelance Published: Friday, August 08 2008

“By all rights, Stephen Harper's Conservative minority government should have fallen ages ago. Minorities don't last long, as a rule in Canadian politics; most average just over one year, four months. And Conservative minorities last less than most. When the Liberals have been in the minority, they have had the Progressives or NDP to prop them up. The Conservatives have had no one. It's the same now. None of the opposition parties -- the Liberals, Bloc and NDP -- support Tory policies. They would bring the government down, if they could. But the Liberals have been forced into the role of prop for the Harper Conservatives because they simply cannot afford to fight a general election. Time and again they have voted for laws or budgets at odds with their own platform, just to avoid a federal campaign for which they have no money.

Since the Liberals' sorry finances have not improved this year (if anything, they've worsened), I don't believe all the recent huff-and-puff about a fall election. The Tories, being the smallest minority in Canadian history (31 seats shy of a majority), shouldn't be able to hang on any longer. Yet when Parliament resumes in the fall, we are likely to see the Liberals once again playing crutch to the Tories' Tiny Tim. The truth of the matter is the Grits lack the financial resources to fight an election without taking on huge bank loans.

They already owe banks $2 million on a loan that carries the kind of interest rate former bankrupts are forced to pay -- nine per cent. Much of the blame for the Grits' red ink has been pinned on election finance reforms pushed through by Jean Chretien during his last year as prime minister. And to some extent, that is justified.
The Liberals were (and still are) the party of corporate Canada. When they were in office as much as two-thirds of their cash came from big, industrial donors and wealthy executives. Chretien outlawed corporate contributions and limited individual donations to $5,000 per year, a sum since reduced further to $1,100. But the Liberals have also suffered mightily from the uninspiring leadership of the two men who succeeded Chretien, Paul Martin and Stephane Dion.

In 2005, two years after the Chretien reforms took effect, the Liberals raised more than $11 million under the new rules. In 2006 -- Martin's final year -- that fell to just over $5 million after he had bumbled the Adscam affair and lost the 2006 election. And last year -- Dion's first full one as leader -- the tally slipped further, to just over $4 million. To the end of June this year, the Liberals are on pace to raise just over $3.5 million for all of 2008. This for a party that has annual expenses in non-election years of around $6 million.

[updated Sat Aug 30 05:28:36 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 05:28

MRM

PART TWO

Elections draw donations out of supporters in a way ordinary years cannot. So if a federal vote is called for this fall, the Liberals can expect to boost their fundraising tally. But it is highly unlikely, with the current small per-donor limit on contributions, they would be able to raise all the $18 million or $20 million they would need to underwrite a credible campaign without resorting to more bank loans. If that happened, it would mean the party owed banks for day-to-day operations and for a general election campaign. Meanwhile, nine of its 11 leadership contenders owe money to banks, corporations and wealthy individuals, too. Leader Dion owes at least $250,000 still from his 2006 leadership bid, and may owe as much as $560,000. The former is the sum Liberal headquarters claims his still owes, the latter sum -- $560,000 -- is what he told Elections Canada he owed as of June 3.
From December 2006 to June 2008, Dion managed to pay back just $145,000 of the $705,000 he borrowed for his leadership campaign. It's possible, I suppose, that in the last two months he has paid back more than twice what he managed to repay in the 18 months before that. But Liberal math being what it is, I am dubious. In June, for instance, Nova Scotia MP and leadership contestant Scott Brison told the Toronto Star he thought he had just $40,000 left to pay. Yet, last week when Elections Canada gave an accounting of what all the leadership hopefuls (other than Dion) still owed, Brison was on the hook for $105,000 -- considerably more than the $40,000 he had earlier estimated.
So until Elections Canada releases the Dion campaign's latest financial statements, colour me skeptical about Liberal claims that Dion has only a quarter-million left to repay. So far this year, the Liberals have managed to raise just $1.8 million from individual donors. They are surviving on the $4.3 million they receive from taxpayers as an allowance (also part of the Chretien reforms), which now constitutes 71 per cent of Liberal finances.
Maybe the Liberals will pull the plug on this minority. But with their finances in such a shambles, don't count on it.”
lgunter@shaw.ca

[updated Sat Aug 30 05:29:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 05:29

Richard_thumb rsharp

I don't have much time fot the misguided but let me try. I get The Citizen and like all Canwest newspapers, it is to the right of Ayn Rand. It has several Jewish and rabidly Catholic columnists, for instance, who can see no wrong in any American or Israeli atrocity. And no right in anything Muslim. All in service of their corporate masters, Big Oil, the military/industrial complex and so on.

The Hill Times takes after the government in power. The CBC? Take a look at their regular political pundits, RWers all.

About what, pray tell, are you talking?

[updated Fri Aug 29 17:00:15 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 17:00

Foxer

You are either joking or delusional. The cbc was taken to task several times in just the last year or three for misreporting stories on the CPC in a negative way. To suggest they are 'right wing' is a complete laugh.

I posted an example on a previous thread form that day - a case where the CBC story missed important facts and made the CPC party look worse as a result, compared to several other papers including the star, which is about as left as you can get.

The sun line of papers is more right wing than left, the globe and mail and star are far more left than right - cbc is definitely left, the 'city' tv networks are definitely left, the national post is more right.

I can't believe you'd even suggest the CBC is right wing - that's like saying stalin was a bit of a capitalist :)

[updated Sat Aug 30 05:10:58 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 05:10

Regina Beach Boy

Foxer, if these people really believe what they're saying it's downright scary to think of the extreme delusion they suffer from, even scarier to think of them with a vote!!!

I refuse to think people can be this out of touch with reality, its more likely they are just planted Liberal posters here fishing here for real ill-informed, meaning new Liberal voters of course.

[updated Sat Aug 30 10:57:18 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 10:57

Foxer

Well anything's possible, but to be honest with you i don't think we need the idea of a 'liberal plant' to explain it.

People often make a simple mistake - they start with an answer and work their way back to a question. "I like the liberals - what information can i find that supports that end decision".

A more clear thinker will start with a question and work towards an answer, "Which party is best for canada" or "which party is more corrupt", or " which media sources are bias". Then they do the research - THEN they arrive at a conclusion.

I think more than anything this is just a good ole fashioned lack of info and a willing 'blindness' to facts that don't support a conclusion prematurely arrived at. I've never been much of a subscriber to the "organized partisan party plant" theory :)

Of course - i could be kidding myself :D

[updated Sat Aug 30 11:03:07 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 11:03

Regina Beach Boy

I'm on the stock markets full time and boiler room operations or stock manipulaters (posters who are pumping or bashing stocks) are an industry onto themselves, with the explosion of internet political websites and the blogging spheres, politics have not been left behind.

The G&M, CBC website, and the Star are notorius due to the big readership numbers, most parties have planted posters, the only question is how many of them are there and how widespread is the practice.

There are a lot of information seekers out there who only have so much time to give to educating themselves before an election, they are influencable and ripe for the parties pickings, they're called the "undecided" and they are in big numbers.

Newspapers and tv broadcast news are not a growth business, getting your news, information,and opinions from the internet is.

It's my opinion this trend will continue for some time to come.

[updated Sat Aug 30 14:58:11 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 14:58

Foxer

Maybe. I suspect most 'plants' are just people who feel strongly about one party or another rather than an organized effort.

Doesn't really matter in the end. Either they'll make intelligent arguments, or they'll post uninformed crap in which case someone will call 'em on it.

I doubt the arguments we're seeing here are winning many converts :)

[updated Sat Aug 30 15:01:26 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 15:01

Regina Beach Boy

""I doubt the arguments we're seeing here are winning many converts""

LOL, oh I don't know about that, I think there are some very rational posters here that really contribute, and of course the many irrational that turn people off.

[updated Sun Aug 31 10:51:16 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 10:51

Foxer

Heh - well true :) I guess i meant they won't win may liberal converts :)

[updated Sun Aug 31 12:37:12 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 12:37

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Planted lib posters...surely you jest. Your rants don't rate on their radar screens.

[updated Sat Aug 30 12:37:13 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 12:37

Regina Beach Boy

LOL, Wow, you weren't joking, I have no time as well for the Mis-informed, and you sir are as mis-informed as they come.

So I have to leave you with this, if you actually believe what you just said, than you are an anarchist and if you believe what you said about the CBC, you are left of Chairman Mao.

I leave you alone to your inner mumblings.

[updated Sat Aug 30 10:49:02 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 10:49

Bernie

The CBC is independent and fair. All the others are conservative.

[updated Sat Aug 30 07:37:30 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 07:37

Foxer

That is simply not true bernie. Not only is the cbc not bias-free, but to call papers like the toronto star "conservative' is clearly insane. I don't think they even pretend they're not bias in favour of the libs.

[updated Sat Aug 30 11:05:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 11:05

Bernie

I agree. As your first paragraphs explains has he lost his marbles?

[updated Sat Aug 30 07:35:32 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 07:35

Richard_thumb rsharp

k. I'm back from a month in France. I am more convinced than ever that Euiropeans know how to run countries!

Mass transit galore, within and among cities. I spent 3 weeks in Provence and along the Cote d'Azur with nary a traffic jam, accident or cop. The whole country was down there plus a few million tourists and no problem. If you parked on a median you got a ticket. Otherwise, living is easy.

Which is my point. We suffer cops everywhere and for what? North Americans work 20% more hours than Europeans. That's 15+ weeks more per year! Are we crazy?

And Europeans have better health care and education, progressive taxation,.excellent mass transit, welfare and on and on. Oh, and they don't do wars.

We in North America are a bunch of ants. Worker bees. Sheep.

[updated Mon Sep 01 18:20:33 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

01 Sep 18:20

MRM

rsharp - you must have visited a different Europe than I lived in? One vacation in one part of France is hardly long enough to make you an expert on all of Europe! There is wide spread poverty in most of the old East Bloc and Southern Europe and you must have missed the slums throughout France? You know the areas that were rioting throughout the country in 2005 and again less than a year ago in a cry for social justice. You would have seen many cops there. Just because they keep them out of the tourists eyesight does not mean that they are not there.

European Tax Rates are much higher than Canada’s. Let’s look at France for instance? The VAT rate in the EU is a minimum of 15% with France’s VAT being 19.6%. As for income tax, France uses a progressive tax rate very similar to Canada’s with a marginal tax rate 1% above Canada’s at 16%. That said Canada’s marginal tax rate is graduated from 15% to 29% while France’s rate is graduated from 16% to 45%.

As for transit while the Germans have an excellent mass transit system, the French system is notoriously inefficient but not in the tourist areas where it is quite efficient. As for traffic, try Paris or Strasbourg or Reims or any other large French metropolitan area. I suggest about 5 P.M. on any week night. You will find traffic jams that make the 401 look like a soap box derby, but you will not find any in the tourist areas?

Some European countries have better health care than we do but France is not one of them, the same is true of education. As for working less, not so! France abolished the 35 hr work week last month (takes effect in Sept) because the experiment failed dismally.

Europeans don’t do wars? Hmmm, I think that France buried 10 soldiers while you were sunning yourself on the Cote d’Azur? Romania lost 7, Poland another three and Germany and Denmark each lost one during your holiday.

Anyway glad that you had a good holiday. Welcome home.

[updated Tue Sep 02 00:30:16 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

02 Sep 00:30

Taylor Cutforth

This guy sounds like he works for green peace or something.

"But the Liberals will be fighting the NDP, Green and Bloc parties for the progressive vote vs. a united right wing monolith, including an overwhelmingly pro-Harper mainstream media."

What a terrible misuse of the word progressive, I must say.

The opposition parties are hardly moderate or progressive.

It's a bigtent party of mostly moderates.
that does include some right-wing groups (depends on the policy).
Very similar to how the US democrats are.. only on slightly the opposite side of the 'center'.
but they don't let the smaller groups of left-wingers dictate the policies but allow them to contribute their perspectives and ideas. and find a common ground. then come up with a solutions that work towards everyones benefit or at least that of the majority. and when a ground gets left out and effected negatively by that then another policy becomes formed in a way that helps that group help themselves or some such.

so yeah. it works the same way up ere with the conservatives. <-(quoted myself. didn't feel reword it better at this point. but you get the idea)

Let's put it this way... they are not the Christian Heritage Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Heritage_Party_of_Canada

[updated Tue Sep 02 23:49:36 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

02 Sep 23:49

hchristine64

Wow , I remember the last election, talk about slanted media, even down to the broadcasters red ties.
The fixed election dates were to protect Canadians from out of control majority governments such as the last Liberal corrupt bunch of thieves. Calling early on a minority was never an issue and it was Dion himself that was calling for a fall election so whats the difference unless he really didnt mean what he said.I call it smart and shrewed, Dion just cant keep up, hes no leader. At least Harper does most of what he says he will which is also more than the many years of empty promises and double talk we endured from the Liberals.

[updated Tue Sep 09 23:32:20 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

09 Sep 23:32

Tom Good

Ah---the fine art of Hara-Kiri-----No, I do not think either man is that stupid as to enter into a no win situation. I believe Harper, quite rightly, is calling the bluff to Dion's two-step fancy footwork. Both the Conservatives and the Liberals are playing like children in the House, political children that, I believe, we would all like to whip a little sense into, if possible. I could be wrong but I guess this is all political bluster and the election will be October 19, next year. One thing is certain no matter when the election date is called, either Harper or Dion will be replaced, after that election, as leader of their party and we may, thankfully, get a little closer to normalcy in the House.

To be facetious, Michelle Jean could name Harper as the leader of the Liberals and send Dion to the Senate----Ho Ho

[updated Fri Aug 29 04:03:41 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 04:03

30 replies so far. Join this conversation.

gerry l

How devastating must be the Conservative internal polls if these latest Nanos numbers are any indication. Only the prospect of worse support levels to come pushes Harper to call an election he readily admits he cannot win.

Finally, Canadians will have an oppourtunity to pass judgement on this Prime Minister.

[updated Fri Aug 29 04:40:49 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 04:40

13 replies so far. Join this conversation.

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

First off the personal numbers for Dion continue to reflect the effects of attack ads the Tories roll out regularly and not his real competence. It is sad that we are getting such low ball and dirty politics from the Tories. Paybacks will be hell for them as the Liberal "team" will roll out some pretty damning stuff about Harper during the course of an election. They have Iggy and Petersen plus some other heavy hitters just itching to go after Steve the liar.
The Libs will spend their ad money wisely in an election campaign and that will include serious attacks on Harper's credibility,honesty,ethics and bully tactics like calling the election early.

Secondly, the popularity numbers for the parties reflect the fact Dion just keeps coming. He inches forward at what seems like a glacial clip but he does get his message out and that's why Harper needs an election now. Some of the tory lovers here will have lots of excuses now.

Thirdly, the NDP numbers in Quebec will not hold and probably will see them not get even one seat. Their numbers are simply enough to allow either the Tories or the Libs to sneak up the middle in several ridings where they will be splitting the Bloc vote.

I say to Harper bring it on. His lies,bribery and deceipt will get full play.

This poll shows why Harper's even more full of crap in the last week with his bluster and arrogance at an all time high. Testing the waters by dragging Trudeau into the picture is nothing short of desperation and the Libs can play that back by showing pictures of Harper with Mulroney in some of their ads.

[updated Fri Aug 29 06:30:04 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 06:30

8 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Gordo05

These numbers are truly amazing. One has to ask what Harper thinks he is doing - if these numbers hold, he will be committing political suicide. Look at the regional numbers, especially Ontario - Liberals 42%, CPC 29% and NDP 21. The CPC has dropped since the May polling, with much of that support going to the NDP. In Atlantic Canada, the Liberals are at 54%, compared with the CPC at 25% and the NDP at 19%. In Quebec the Bloc has gone into free-fall, but the Liberals and CPC are in a virtual tie. This, folks, is going to be one VERY interesting federal election.

[updated Fri Aug 29 08:01:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 08:01

30 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Bernie

This is the first thing to grab my attention after returning from a 30 year delay for a vacatiuon. I will be happy to anticipate Canadian voters who will be tightening the noose that Harper will slip around his neck on Oct. 14, 2008.

[updated Fri Aug 29 08:31:58 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 08:31

5 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Non-aligned in Toronto

Extremely interesting numbers, Particularly in the battleground provinces of Quebec and Ontario. I'm quite impressed with the NDP numbers which in Quebec, have nearly tripled, mainly at the expense of the Bloc, and Ontario where they are up four points and into the range where they will pick up seats

[updated Fri Aug 29 10:13:25 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 10:13

102 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Mike

Hi Nik

I think these polls are an excellent example of the power of what a good advertising campaign, unlimited funds and a total lack of ethics can accomplish.

Since being in power the Conservatives have refused to honor Canada’s international commitment to Kyoto, turned its back on aboriginals by refusing to fund the Kalona agreement, allowed the hollowing out of corporate Canada, tried to dismantle the wheat board, abandoned our world leading position on protection of child soldiers. They have had enough scandals in two and a half years to equal at least a century of Liberal governance….. the Cadman affaire, the in and out scheme, the Bernier affaire, the isotope fiasco, NAFTA gate, cutting programs popular with Canadians in the arts, women’s rights, they have brought us to the brink of a deficit. Yet they are poling at 33%.

If it were not for the magic of propaganda Stephen Harper would have to take refuge in Texas

[updated Fri Aug 29 20:08:43 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 20:08

74 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Peter3

I don't believe that Mr. Harper is looking to win a majority. He is calculating that the Liberals are in dissaray and will be unable to come together under Mr. Dion to mount an effective campaign. I expect that he envisions anoth minority parliament with a larger Conservative caucus, fewer Liberals, and an official opposition that will continue to permit him to govern as if he had a majority.

Seen this way, his risks are lower.

With a bit of luck, the thinking might go, the Liberal campaign will come apart mid-stream and the Conservatives might get their majority. The first gamble concerns the read that Mr. Dion cannot rescue his leadership. His doggedness and intellect make this less than certain, albeit likely. The second gamble concerns where the Liberal vote might go under circumstances that follow the Conservative prognostication. Leakage could flow to the NDP, Greens, Bloq and Conservatives. The relative shift could lead to anything from a majority government to a minority government with a couple of possibilities in the opposition role.

This one is going to be interesting, that much is certain.

[updated Fri Aug 29 20:32:21 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

29 Aug 20:32

49 replies so far. Join this conversation.

waynorth

One has to wonder (or stand with dropped jaw) at the gymnastic-like maneuvers we’re seeing from Stephen Harper and the ReformConservatives. Almost two years ago they introduced and passed A LAW that set determined election dates in Canada, with the first one set for October 2009. They raved this was a needed changed to Canada’s election laws in order to “level the playing field” by removing when an election is called from the arsenal of the Prime Minister. They touted this new LAW as a “sure fire way” to prevent any future Prime Minister from EVER calling an election whenever he felt like it (as in when he believed it would do him and his party the most good). Well, it didn’t take Harper long to flush those lofty ideals down the toilet did it? Canadians are going to the polls because Steven Harper wants them to. The question is why is he so eager to break his own legislated law?

He says it’s because parliament is “dysfunctional”. What? Any MINORITY parliament is going to be difficult. In fact, it should be difficult. Parties should have to compromise and negotiate. That’s what Canadians voted for last time. And, as mentioned by countless others much of Harper’s original agenda HAS passed – some easily, some after debate delay and a few after committee changes. That’s not dysfunction, Steve, but how a parliamentary democracy works. So what’s the REAL reason Harper is hell-bent on breaking his own law? If his American-born neocon advisor, Tom Flanagan is to be believed (and nothing to date indicates he shouldn’t be) it’s for a most cynical, despotic reason possible – he simply wants to destroy Stephen Dion and the Liberal Party of Canada.

Let’s be clear. Canadians will be going to the polls shortly, not to give opinion on a pressing matter or to voice consent or objection to government policy, nor for better government, but because Stephen Harper wants to destroy his political opposition and sees the time is ripe. Canadians are now being asked to ante up millions of dollars for an election that cannot by any stretch of the imagination be seen as a positive exercise in democracy and good governance. Who is Mr. Harper kidding? This election isn’t being held for a better functioning parliament or Canada. It ‘s nothing more than a taxpayer-funded political hunting party orchestrated by a very power-hungry, devious megalomaniac. The question now is will Canadians knowingly join this Harper/Flanagan hunting party?

[updated Sat Aug 30 14:25:44 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

30 Aug 14:25

25 replies so far. Join this conversation.

RonaldODowd

Blair Wilson.

Breakthrough for the Greens or one-day wonder?

What will be the effect on the Greens polling numbers? What will be their seat count, if any? Is this an automatic entry for Elizabeth May into the debates despite the reservations of all parties except the Liberals?

[updated Sun Aug 31 08:15:44 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 08:15

5 replies so far. Join this conversation.

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Here's another reason not to consider Harper in this election with his views so closely aligned with Bush economically. We are going into difficult and the Libs have always shone in tose times because of their ability to slot tax money into the right hands for economic reasons. I don't have comparable figures for Canada but I would bet they are similar. Populist governments are too dogma driven and have no idea how to be practical and strategic in tough times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?em
Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats.

[updated Sun Aug 31 09:20:45 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 09:20

9 replies so far. Join this conversation.

larryl

Does any one besides me see this for what it really is? Pinnochio is again violating campaign spending rules by launching the CPC advertising campaign before the writ has been dropped . Advertising dollars spent before the campaign is officially on won't show up at Elections Canada for scrutiny. The longer he can bend the rules, the better his chances of fooling the voters he is honest and has any integrity at all.The G.G. is the only wild card in this game. She could and should put a stop to Yo Yo Harper playing fast and loose with the rules he actually had a part in writing. A coalition with only negotiated legislation among the parties with no motions of non-confidence could see the election being held on the date set by Harper's law. That law, like the man who passed it, has no real value since it can be ignored by the party in power with claims the government is disfunctional. How can anything he says be trusted??????

[updated Sun Aug 31 13:38:29 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 13:38

18 replies so far. Join this conversation.

RonaldODowd

Best Or Worst Line Heard So Far:

Jack Layton: I'll be applying for Stephen Harper's job! (Worst.)

[updated Sun Aug 31 16:26:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 16:26

7 replies so far. Join this conversation.

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Here's a god management report on the Tories agriculture minister:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/08/30/gagliano-farm.html

" Soudas said the Tories are in the process of tightening the guidelines that Crown corporations must take into account when loaning money.

He said that means all federal Crown corporations engaged in commercial lending will have to take into account "the personal integrity" of an individual during the review of that person's loan application."

Isn't that typical of this useless government. They blamed the Liberals for Adscam and promised accountibility and then lend money to one of the guys involved and a former cabinet minister at that.
What a bunch of clowns run our government.
I think they need to rephrase that wording above as no tory would ever get a farm loan in the future.

Good campaign material to go along with the tainted meat scandal that's now developing into a major government faux pas that has killed several canadians.

[updated Sun Aug 31 17:28:28 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 17:28

4 replies so far. Join this conversation.

rusty001

I'm surprized that the minority government has lasted this long. I thought we would have already gone to the polls by now. But,the Liberals have been unwilling or unable to show any real ability to lead with any sense of direction leave most Canadians wondering what ever happened to the "Big Red Machine"

Maybe a stong majority mandate for the tories is just what the doctor should order for bothe Canada and the brused and battered Liberal party

As for the idea that an election call would violate the fixed election date legislation passed by the government is bogus. Minority governments were exempt from the legislation both in the bill in itself and constitional convention

[updated Sun Aug 31 23:44:29 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

31 Aug 23:44

28 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Bernie

Nik; The Saturday Toronto Star states the latest Angus Reid Poll shows the Conservatives have an eight point lead over the Liberals, 36% to 28 %.
I am sure Angus Reid claims a moe of plus or minus 3% 19 times out of 20 also.
Since the polling was done roughly the same time as yours, what could be the explanation for such a difference?
I know they poll a different group of 1000 but all posters claim that their selected group is representative of the whole.

To others who claim media bias, notice that the Star placed this on their front page yet they did not post a poll that shows the Liberals ahead.

[updated Mon Sep 01 08:26:02 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

01 Sep 08:26

11 replies so far. Join this conversation.

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

This article is one that should be of criticial interest of center leaning tories:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/487996
"In his book Harper's Team, Tom Flanagan makes it clear what the next election is all about for the Conservatives. It's about winning a majority, that's a given. But it's also about making sure Harper's brand of conservatism is entrenched across Canada.

Why? "Because if you control the government, you choose judges, appoint the senior civil service, fund or de-fund advocacy groups, and do many other things that gradually influence the climate of opinion," writes Flanagan, Harper's former campaign manager and professor of political science at the University of Calgary."

The article is pretty damning of the way Tories really do things.

[updated Mon Sep 01 09:24:21 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

01 Sep 09:24

7 replies so far. Join this conversation.

RonaldODowd

Globe and Mail/CTV Poll by Strategic Counsel:

CPC: 37

LPC: 29

NDP: 17

GPC: 9

As per usual, this continues the trend of the polls being all over the map.

[updated Mon Sep 01 23:06:53 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

01 Sep 23:06

51 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Foxer

Dion to make 'Green Shift' plan more marketable

The following story appeared on the CTV website today -

http://tinyurl.com/59wr9c

Dion to make 'Green Shift' plan more marketable

Updated Wed. Sep. 3 2008 12:16 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion will announce tweaks to his controversial "Green Shift" plan Wednesday in an attempt to sell Canadians on what the Conservatives call a dangerous carbon tax.

Continued ...

As you can see - dion has correctly identified that the Green tax is not winning over any voters, and is causing a great deal of concern to key sectors.

After 3 months of failing to explain the tax to people in a clear fashion, he's going to try to re-tool it and explain it AND the changes in just 6 weeks.

Here's the problem dion is going to face in a campaign. He is going to have to spend a huge amount of his time defending and explaining the tax to people, explain how they won't be hurt by it and yet somehow it's going to force people to use less carbon, explain how it will not hurt business, and now also explain how taking the pain away from some of the biggest sources of pollution will result in ANY benefits at all.

While he's doing this, Harper and Layton will be laying out new ideas and platforms that you can bet will be simple to understand and present a clear picture.

This is why i'm thinking dion is really going to do poorly this election. He's making a very amature mistake, one he just can't afford. The guy just doesn't know how to run a campaign - he's going to be spending all his time defending and explaining something, and trying to discredit whatever the CPC and NDP come up with, and will have zero time to present a clear plan for Canadians that people can believe in. You can't win an election if you're spending all your time digging yourself out of a hole.

[updated Wed Sep 03 14:12:15 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

03 Sep 14:12

6 replies so far. Join this conversation.

larryl

Dion is rejigging his Green Shift. Many will think he is a weak leader because he won't stand his ground. Others might see it as a smart move and show him as capable of changing to respect the wishes of the public. Being rigid and pushing through your agenda is a sign of a control freak who won't listen to the concerns of his caucus and the voters. If he stuck to his guns he would appear strong and decisive but it would cost him the election. Only a fool would refuse to at least try to show he can work for the benefit of the voters who are dissatisfied with his present plan. His political career is on the line and I think he is making the right move. Of course the little dictator will play this for all its worth.Do we really want someone who would never change to do what we want instead of what he wants?

[updated Wed Sep 03 15:14:52 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

03 Sep 15:14

45 replies so far. Join this conversation.

larryl

How much effect will the deaths of Canadians in Afghanistan have on the polls? I believe a majority of Canadians think we should get out and many believe we should never have gone in the first place. I was shocked yesterday to hear Lou McKenzie say that Canadians are dying needlessly over there. His opinion is that N.A.T.O. won't put the effort needed to end the war. We should not politicize the deaths of our troops but the reality is that it will play a part in some people's decision. I would like to know how much.?

[updated Thu Sep 04 13:05:44 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 13:05

90 replies so far. Join this conversation.

TPQ (suspended for inappropriate comments)

Lots of tories not running again...I see that Monte Solberg along with David Emerson and a few more are not running for the Harper desperation election. In the meantime the Libs have secured a former police chief in Sask. who is a real law and order guy plus a former head of an agriculture association to run in Manitoba. There are a few more Lib surprises coming down the pike some in Quebec that will catch very positive headlines.

[updated Thu Sep 04 16:15:57 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

04 Sep 16:15

27 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Foxer

Latest poll - CPC 38 - libs 28 - NDP 19

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/04/poll-results.html

"Canadians are most likely to vote for the Conservatives in a federal election, and believe Stephen Harper and Jack Layton would make better prime ministers than Stéphane Dion, according to a new poll sponsored by CBC News.

The survey, conducted by Environics between Friday and Tuesday, found that 38 per cent of Canadians would vote for the Conservative party if an election were held immediately.

By comparison, 28 per cent would vote for the Liberal party, 19 for the NDP, eight for the Bloc Québécois and seven for the Green party.

Even when undecided voters were asked to reveal whom they were inclined to vote for, the Conservatives still kept the lead: Conservatives (33 per cent), Liberals (24), NDP (16), Bloc (7), Green (6).

If the federal election were held today, which of the following parties would you vote for?

Conservative party 38

Liberal party 28

New Democratic Party 19

Bloc Québécois 8

Green party 7

(Source: Environics survey)

This latest poll shows that support for the Conservatives has grown since the beginning of the summer."

WOW - i'm stunned at the NDP numbers, they're really climbing. One poll doesn't tell too much, but if those numbers hold the ndp could be in very good shape.

As i said earlier - if the libs begin to deflate, the votes will go to the ndp and the CPC - and could have surprising results. If they really start to slide, then the ndp could climb faster than anyone expected. Just like we saw with the Reform and Bloc parties during the PC's demise.

Obviously yet another good news poll for the CPC of course. There's now a ten point spread. I think the writing is on the wall for dion.

[updated Fri Sep 05 01:55:00 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 01:55

18 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Foxer

New Quebec poll - Conservatives, Bloc in virtual tie in Quebec, poll finds

http://tinyurl.com/5kh965

"QUEBEC CITY — The Conservatives and the Bloc Québécois are deadlocked in a virtual tie in Quebec, with polling numbers suggesting that Stephen Harper is poised to make major inroads in the province as he prepares to call an election this weekend.

The poll conducted by Léger Marketing for The Globe and Mail and the Montreal daily Le Devoir finds that the majority of Quebeckers are satisfied with the Conservative government, but still perceive the Bloc as being best suited to defend Quebec's interests in Ottawa.

The survey also finds Quebec voters have serious doubts about Stéphane Dion's leadership credentials. According to the poll, voters have less confidence in the Liberal Leader than they do in Mr. Harper on issues such as the economy, public finances, inter-provincial relations and fighting the war in Afghanistan. However, Mr. Dion is viewed as a stronger leader on the environment and in promoting Canadian and Quebec culture.

According to the poll, conducted between Aug. 29 and Sept. 3, 30 per cent of Quebeckers would vote for the Conservatives, another 30 per cent would vote Bloc Québécois, 23 per cent for the Liberals, 11 per cent for the NDP and 5 per cent for the Green Party."

So it looks like the CROP poll was accurate - the libs are falling behind in quebec and the CPC stands to make some pretty massive gains.

Combined with the good news from other polls released in the last 2 days, it looks like the CPC is on the rise and will win the election with a larger number of seats. I suspect if it looks like they're going to get a majority, Quebec will get behind them even more and they'll wind up taking 20 plus seats more in that province alone.

[updated Fri Sep 05 02:18:08 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

05 Sep 02:18

60 replies so far. Join this conversation.

larryl

Just read an article on the CBC website about the global economy. It is worth a read. The timing of certain press releases and stories seem to be too strange to be coincidental. Gagliano getting approval for a loan.His lawsuit to have the Gomery decision thrown out because it said he was partly responsible for adscam . Zaccardelli back in the news making statements .The ghosts from the past showing up to remind us of Liberal corruption just in time for Pinnochio's election. What else is going to rise from the ashes to embarass Dion. One might think the MSM was working for the CPC, not the Liberals that most claim control the left leaning media. I can almost guarantee Lyin Brain won't be seen or heard from for the next five weeks. Has anyone heard anything about Schreiber lately and I am sure you won't. Steve won't be campaigning anywhere near Cadman's old ridng or Maxime's either. We heard about Liberals not seeking re-election but very little about Conservatives abandoning ship. Polls are paid for by the media but we only find out about them if the results prove what they were originally intended to show. If they do not turn out the way they were suppose to ,how do we know they were even done?It is really amazing how easily we can be fooled. We really deserve the government we get since we are so easily manipulated.

[updated Sat Sep 06 17:14:27 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

06 Sep 17:14

3 replies so far. Join this conversation.

MRM

I just finished watching Duffy. He has some advance news on a national Leger poll that will be released tomorrow. While he could not give numbers he said to expect that it will show the Tories in solid majority territory nationally and the Bloc and Liberals in trouble in Quebec and the Liberals in trouble in ON. He also said that it looks Dion's national campaign launch also planned for tomorrow in Montreal may also be in trouble. They are on the phones franticly trying to fill even the Quebec slate for the launch but still have "many" vacancies and are having trouble convincing candidates to run but without much success. Looks like the wheels are coming of that Liberal gas guzzling plane before it even takes off!

[updated Sun Sep 07 22:43:04 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

07 Sep 22:43

24 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Foxer

Tories seize lead in key ridings, poll shows

OTTAWA — Voters in pivotal regional battlegrounds across Canada have shifted their support toward the Harper Tories as federal leaders kick off their first full day of campaigning, according to a new poll.

The survey of 45 hotly contested constituencies in Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia finds that the Conservative Party has made significant gains over its performance of 2006, while its main opponents in all three regions have lost ground. The survey for The Globe and Mail-CTV News shows the Tories in first place in the key swing constituencies, as polls across the country put them in sight of a majority.

“The bottom line is that the Conservatives are in significantly better shape in these battlegrounds in the three provinces than they were in the election,” said Peter Donolo, a partner with polling company the Strategic Counsel.

“People who reside in these ridings think the country is on the right track.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080907.welxnpolls08/BNStory/Front

Wooo - looks like a lot of the swing ridings are going to go to harper the way things are going.

He might yet manage to take that majority.

[updated Mon Sep 08 01:16:59 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

08 Sep 01:16

7 replies so far. Join this conversation.

larryl

nik. A strange thing happened today. At 11:53 I posted a message to M.R.M. about the CPC website and their list of candidates. It seems that M.R.M.'s claim that they had a full slate was not true. I pointed that out to him and suggested he call CPC H.Q. to update their site since it only listed 250 ridings. The Liberal site had all 308 ridings listed with T.B.A. in any riding that had no candidate. Imagine my surprise when at 16:30 I checked the CPC site again and voila! A list of all ridings with coming soon in ridings where no candidate has been chosen. My question to all is does seem like a very strange coincidence or does anyone think that MRM has enough influence with the party to get their site updated?

[updated Mon Sep 08 17:33:10 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

08 Sep 17:33

26 replies so far. Join this conversation.

RonaldODowd

Nothing more frustrating that watching third-rate political strategists at work in the CPC, NDP and BQ...they just don't get it. It's not only The At Issue Panel that wants Elizabeth May in the debates -- the Canadian people want the same thing. It's a no brainer for the person in the street.

You would think these so-called strategists would know that by threatening to walk out of debates or refusing to allow May's participation that they are playing into the hands of the Liberals. But no.

Just ask yourself how the voters will react to all this. The undecided will be pushed toward the Liberals thanks to these dunderheads. No wonder TPQ, larryl et al. are smiling...

[updated Tue Sep 09 06:55:48 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

09 Sep 06:55

55 replies so far. Join this conversation.

reality man

Where's Foxer's daily update on the polls. Funny he's not posting G+M's headline tonight. i wonder why?

"Tory momentum slows in swing ridings since election call"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080909.welxnpoll10/BNStory/politics/home

Synopsis: The Reform Party's support is dropping and the other parties' support is increasing. The Tories are now behind the BQ in ALL the swing ridings that in Quebec that they led in yesterday.

Peaking the day before the election call is a great strategy.

[updated Wed Sep 10 02:10:35 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

10 Sep 02:10

6 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Foxer

By Popular Request - Latest poll: Tories at 38, libs 24, ndp 21.

[CALGARY - Sept. 10, 2008] - The Conservative Party remains on top in the early stages of Canada's federal electoral campaign, while the New Democratic Party (NDP) is closing in on the Liberals, a new Angus Reid Strategies poll has found.

In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,007 adults, 38 per cent of decided voters would support the Tories in the Oct. 14 federal election, up two points since late August and above the party's share of the vote in the 2006 electoral process (36.3%).

The Liberal Party is a distant second with 24 per cent (-4), well below its 2006 total (30.2%).

The NDP has markedly improved over the past two weeks, reaching 21 per cent (+3) for the first time this year and clearly surpassing its 2006 showing (17.5%).

The Bloc Québécois remains stable at nine per cent, while the Green Party drops back to seven per cent (-1).

http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=news&newsid=303

At this point it would appear that the libs are largely in a 'free fall'. And most of their support is bleeding to the NDP.

Folks - we have a race for second place on our hands. The NDP may very well kick the libs out of gov't completely - for the first time the libs may not be either the ruling OR the opposition party.

This of course would be death to the libearls. They would have no voice, no power and no money.

Jack layton could pull off the biggest coup since the reform break out of the 90's.

[updated Wed Sep 10 13:43:10 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

10 Sep 13:43

11 replies so far. Join this conversation.

reality man

talking about plummeting

The Strategic Council poll of "battleground ridings" in Ontario, Quebec, and BC has been released again and things are looking decisively down again for the Great Leader.

Ontario - 3 days ago CPC 43% Liberals 28%
today CPC 40% Liberals 34%

Hmmm, a 15 point lead shrinks to 6 points in 3 days with the CPC polling lower every successive day with the Liberals polling higher every successive day. bad trend for the CPC

BC - 3 days ago CPC 43% NDP 18%
today CPC 36% NDP 30%

Hmmm, a 25 point lead shrinks to a 6 point lead in 3 days with CPC support polling lower every successive day and the NDP polling successively higher each day. Abysmal trend for the CPC.

Quebec 3 days ago CPC 33% BQ 30%
today CPC 31% BQ 31%

These numbers are fluctuating with the CPC lead having disappeared starting yesterday when they were trailing by 1 point.

[updated Wed Sep 10 23:01:14 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

10 Sep 23:01

5 replies so far. Join this conversation.

Bernie

I was elated yesterday to see Mr. Layton and Mr. Harper change their position with respect to allowing Ms. May take part in the political debates..
It's sad, tho, to see they didn't until they were forced by the portential loss of votes. So much for integrity? So much for having a instinctive democratic mindset?
Now I may even watch the debate, now that there is some serious about the issues and willing to discuss them and not their just the public image of themselves and their party.

What really got me elated was that of fact message it sent; that is, that the people have power. They can really have their voices heard. If only they would realize it and use it more often. Then we would have a far better country. Everytime something like this happens it shows them that they can achieve something useful if they have the will and take action and force the so-called leaders to take listen to them and take appropiate action. Hurrah for democracy!

Another thing that happened yesterday that help "make my day". I listened to Premier Williams's speech to the NL Board of Trade. It was excellent, superb.
It should be aired on radio and TV and on the front page of the national newspapers every day of the campaign. The mesage may finally sink into the concrete heads of those who still think tha Harper is not a evil, vindictive, mean-spirited man, a tool of the corporate who will wreak havoc on our dear country if he ever gets a majority.
Williams is a tough, hard-nosed conservative businessman. Not the weak-livered wooly headed opposition leaders we have now. Williams tells it like it is and he tells the truth
I wouldn't want him as PM (I don't agree with his political philosphy) but I surely would like him opposing those who are out to do damage to our country.

Another thing from yesterday. I hear the us Secretary of Defence(Gates) and the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Mullen) describe their activity in Afghanistan as failing and in its present form no chance of success. Mullen said they may have 162,000 soldiers in there in 2010.
Harper said our commitment will end in 2011. Isn't that great? He is willing to perhaps have another 97 soldiers lose their lives for an admittedly losing cause. What good are 2500 where 162,000 may be needed. The same people who rose up about the Ms. May affair, should certainly be even more outraged about those wasted lives just for the sake of appeasing George Bush.
I have real sorrow for those already killed and their families and those who will be killed; not the fake, hypocritical sorrow Harper exhibits each time a soldier is killed. If he seriously felt remorse he can stop it tomorrow, not wait till 2011.

[updated Thu Sep 11 13:07:05 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

11 Sep 13:07

6 replies so far. Join this conversation.

cmay

Thank you Nik! Finally a set of statistics that we can actually believe and wrap our minds around, after a barrage of substandard numbers from those other organizations.

Will be very interested to see how the events of Week 1 will play out in the polling numbers.

[updated Thu Sep 11 14:40:56 -0400 2008]

Reply to Comment

11 Sep 14:40

No replies yet. Join this conversation.