New SES Research Poll - Canada's Mission in Afghanistan - Obstacle to Harper Majority

I find this a most interesting poll with the Conservatives most accepting of casualties---almost double the acceptance level as compared to those in other parties. To me, Afghanistan is an unwinnable war and I have to agree with the view point expressed by all the "unembedded" correspondents whether they be American, British or Canadian. No armed forces can IMPOSE democracy upon a country where the majority of the inhabitants have no tradition or cultural concept of what the word means and they see the NATO forces as occupying military. Harper obviously has not read the history of the failed attempts of British and Russian "control. Hearts and minds have not been won over and that is the first necessary ingredient if there is to be a transition from tribal loyalties to paticipatory democracy. A full belly and a job is what most desire FIRST and they are no different to the majority of people in that regard. The generally corrupt Karsai government appears to be viewed as an "imposed" organization and rather a puppet of American interests. Reconstruction funds seem to evaporate and not filter down to the common citizen. The war lords reportedly are keeping their mini-armies "Just in case" which is not a vote of confidence in the central government. The Taliban are ethnic Pushtuns who are on either side of the border with Pakistan where the Pakistani authorities cannot even control them----they are Pakistani too. The Afghanistan war is like our government saying they can hold water in a sieve------who is fooling who ? Yes, any pig headed government ---no matter of what political stripe---- should find the continuation of the Afghanistan war to be a detriment to a majority government-----think of the dead---the unnecessary dead on all sides. Afghanistan is an issue that has an ugly odour attached to it and it just cannot be buried and placed conviently out of sight. Afghanistan is a major political issue for Canadians whether there is an election or not.

[updated Sun May 06 04:30:25 EDT 2007]

I think that one of the reasons that many Canadians don't understand, or support the mission is that there are so few reports on what the mission is all about.

We get what I call long-standing media coverage when there is a casualty, or soldiers wounded. There are few reports of the successes that our troops are having.

From blogs written by troops, and comments from the families of some of our soldiers who have died in Afghanistan, their level of support is high for the Afghanistan mission.

If it were the quagmire that the long-standing media reports, chances are the troops would want out too.

James

[updated Sun May 06 09:14:36 EDT 2007]

The way politicians communicate their message about the issues, namely foreign and domestic may determine whether those priorities take precedence. Judging from the mood of the voters now it would appear that it would beneficial for the Conservatives to focus on domestic and to play down the foreign. The Liberals would be doing the reverse.
I would place the environment first and make Afghan a secondary or lower issue
I agree that it would be unusual for foreign policy to be the number one issue. Since the opposition parties seem to be scoring more points on this issue it would be wise for them to keep that in the limelight.
Personally I find the polls do not to correspond to what I think most Canadians think about these issues. I don't have much interaction with people across Canada so my opinions are based on those I do communicate with, people I associate with and with gut feeling. On Afghanistan, the environment and many social issues I find myself agreeing with the majority of opinion coming out of Quebec. I have a feeling that a greater percent of Canadians across Canada have the same feelings but the media or politicians (or the polls) are not recoginizing this.
Most people I talk to, deplore our "mission" in Afghanistan. I put mission in quotation because it is a misnomer. It's used incessantly by politicians and the media and I cringe when I hear it. Mission, to me, is a good positive word. The debacle in Afghanistan is not. It's a craven, grovelling ass kissing to George Bush Chretien was wise enough to say NO to Iraq, but the obsequious Paul Martin was quite willing to sacrifice Canadian citizens lives to appease Bush.
Harper is trying to elevate such vassalage to a higher level (an oxymoron) The whole charade is a farce, an insult to Canadian decency. Everytime Harper, O'Connor, or Hillier says otherwise it lowers any respect I may have had for them. Most Canadians know this already and soon practically all of them will.
To me the casualties don't alter my position. It would be the same whether there were one or one thousand. It.s wrong to be there under those circumstances. Nothing else matters. It's more important to be on the side of righteousness.
For thinking Canadians it is not the issues, whether foreign or domestic, that matters most. It's how the politicians deal with them. I am sure that if politicians had real true beliefs and policy positions based on those beliefs they would get much more support. If they explained what they were going to do, why and how and did so truthfully we may accept them. For example the Conservatives if they were honest about Afghanistan or about the environment many say, ok. we'll give them a try. But so much of what they say about those two issues are blatant lies. It is not the way they say it is and most Canadians can see that. This propensity to try and fool the electorate is doing them in.
So for me and many other Canadians, it is not foreign nor domestic policy, but the honesty in presenting their position that determines who we support. And as of this moment none of the top three will get my vote.

Hi Nik
The Conservatives have claimed the Afghanistan mission as their own. One of their first moves when taking power was to force an extension of the Afghanistan mission by two years. The timing of the vote in the house was intended to take advantage of the leaderless liberals and trap the opposition into supporting the extension. In the publics mind it became “Harpers war”
Of course if casualties rise, this will bring attention to the conservative’s foreign policy, including their position or opposition to the Kyoto protocol, the measured response by Israel against Lebanon. Obviously foreign affair is not the conservative’s strong suite, unless they are using it to distracting attention from their dismal domestic policy. I seriously doubt Canadians want to experience the G. W. Bush’s right wing tactics north of the border.

What is the primary job of a soldier? His/her job is to kill the enemy, as ordered by his leaders. The human in the soldier knows that this is usually against his morals, and will do so only when they don't have a choice. We have a higher moral standard to follow, and this is not the same standard that is in the Taliban. This war is different. There are no uniforms and no government to oppose. Instead, we are fighting the ideal of radical Islamic Jihad. They do not want to lose their power and are resorting to fighting in the dirtiest of ways, and with our morals, we cannot fight at their level. Will this possibly lead to Taliban doing something in Canada? It could, but I will not worry about that. I know that if they do our mission will change. Our people will want to bring our soldiers home. Our mission cannot change!

I do not like the fact that our soldiers are getting killed by cowards. Those cowards would rather send desperate people to destroy themselves and those who are trying to help a population who has seen nothing but wars for the past 60 or so years. I have no respect for the suicide bombers and their ilk. I respect our soldiers for putting their lives on the line. it takes a person with a lot of courage to go knowing that you are possibly going to die. Despite the fact that you are there trying to rebuild schools and hospitals, and try to bring a semblance of normalcy to a country which has pretty much never had some, well you need your country to back you 100% Both Quebec and the rest of Canada.

Our country's leaders made a difficult choice to send our soldiers to a war torn country to try and help them become able to take care of themselves without the danger of the Taliban and Al-quaida. You don't change a way of thinking overnight and throw on a band-aid fix. It is going to be a long a dirty situation, one that could last 20 years.

Our leaders don't like that idea, and will jump on the bandwagon to blame the party in power over the losses in personnel, and expenses over the war, and so on. Sorry folks, but this is a long haul mission, and leaving in 2008 or 2009 is not going to be enough. Our politicians may force us out of there by then, but leaving when the job is only 20% done???
At that point the war might be over for us, but in 20 years when the Taliban has taken over the country again, and is building nukes for use in the USA, we will be looking back with 20/20 eyes, knowing we could have helped the Afgany people become a thriving peaceful economy selling something other than the opium and drugs they presently produce.

Until the Afghan people see that things are better FOR THEM, they are only going to see the deaths caused by Allied forces and are not going to be willing to walk up to the Allied soldiers and say "Hey! That guy is Taliban and blows people up! Arrest him!".

Will this be an election problem? You bet! Should it be? For the sake of the Afghanistan people, I hope it isn't because this will come back and bite us in the ass!

[updated Sun May 06 15:53:00 EDT 2007]

No doubting that Afghanistan and the Harper war policy are the elephant in the living room. No one wants to dis our soldiers, but very few are in favor of this war. If Harper wants to win the next election, he has to hope that his buddy Jack keeps him in power long enough to wind down this war. Than they both have to hope for no bad news on the climate change front.

[updated Sun May 06 17:45:07 EDT 2007]

Let me get this straight:
The Liberals got us into the war--Conservatives pay the price
The Liberals sign the original detainee agreement--Conservatives pay the price
The Liberals sign Kyoto,do nothing for 10 years--Conservatives pay the price
Where would we be without the Globe, CBC and Toronto star to tell us what to believe!!! LOL
Just when I was feeling good about being a traditional Canadian again.

[updated Mon May 07 00:37:10 EDT 2007]

The question "should Canada pull out if casualties continue" is based on the false premise that opposition to the war is caused by the "body bag syndrome". Yet Quebec has not yet had its turn in Southern Afghanistan and opposition there is the highest. Nor are there any body bags coming back to Canada from Iraq, yet opposition to that war is also intense in Quebec. SImilarly, opposition to Canada's support of Israeli bombing of Lebanese civilians was strongest in Quebec.
At most the bodies coming home highlight that a war is taking place. If the war was seen to be justified, necessary and internationally supported, Canadians, including Quebec, would support it regardless of the casualties. Your survey would best focus on the reasons for opposition to the war - but that might cause even greater shock to Mr Harper!

[updated Mon May 07 01:17:15 EDT 2007]

Wars are seldom good politics. The fighting in Afghanistan is no exception. We are apparently going to be there no matter what happens for at least several more years. The body count will continue to grow and so will the political discontent. Victory will be as elusive a goal to define as will progress. The Prime Minister and his front bench say repeatedly in the House those who don't support the war aren't supporting the troops and are Tailban sympathisers. Why should Canadians trust a government who equates patriotism with partisanship and whose only goal is to get a majority even if it means using wedge politics to create divisions among us?

Hello Nik:
Personally I feel that Afghanistan will be a big election issue, and that we can no longer
dismiss Foreign policy, which now has a huge impact on all Countries. France voted right-
wing, G.Britain will also be more to the right, with Brown...Qc voted for the adq, which is
more to the right, however, I do not parallel this change with more votes for the Harper
gov't. at all! More casualties in Afghanistan will influence Canadians negatively, however,
this is not the real issue. Just as in Iraq, very few people know the real truth out there, and
what is really happening. Same in Afghanistan. Canadians do not know why they are fighting
out there, since the peace-keeping mission has changed drastically, and are beginning to
understand that it is not their war!!! That as the Americans are realizing, they have become
more unpopular with the rest of the world, and may be attracting more terrorist for the
future, out here! Contrarily to what they had been told by the 'bush' and cronies' administration.
Only Tony Blair, and against his own good judgment, joined the US in Iraq, but the rest of
the Countries refused to support the war in Iraq...We shall have the same dilemma in
Afghanistan, however, will it be too late to pull out? It's not like World War 11 where
everybody was fighting for a united cause. Remember last year, Nik, when the Harper gov't
did not want to have public funerals for the soldiers, because they did not want us counting?
Amnesty International had to send petitions so that the last World War 11 soldier could
have a memorial service, and that veterans had proper, and decent pensions? Now, the Harper gov't, and Rick Hillier caught on to the message
that they should really honour our fallen soldiers, and in public, in order to boost this war.
It's definately going to be a big issue in the next Federal election, along with a lot of other
important issues whereby this gov't is not giving us adequate info, and where is the
accountability and transparency that they had promised, and campaigned on?

I knew it was an unwinable war when we went in...Politicians are lousy at history and ignore it repeatedly, we stumbled into a civil war we had no business taking sides in, al queda was removed and that should have been the end of the mission...the Taliban was for the Afghanstan people to remove not us...

[updated Fri Oct 10 12:14:28 EDT 2008]