Federal Tories-Grits Statistically Tied - Tory Turbulence in Quebec

53 comments Latest by Dallas McQuarrie

Taking a look at the national numbers, the movement in voter preference is within the margin of accuracy for the poll. Check out Quebec – major turbulence for the Conservatives (down fourteen points). SES’ polling has shown that when the Conservatives focus on their five priorities their numbers move up but that the focus on Afghanistan, pulling out of Kyoto and warm relations with George Bush has noticeably eroded Conservative support in Quebec.

The main beneficiary of the Conservative drop has been the BQ (up eight points). This illustrates the appeal that the Harper-led Conservatives had among soft nationalists in Quebec.

It’s a little early for a victory lap for the Liberals. Quebec is the most volatile in support right now. The Conservatives need to hold and expand support in Quebec to stay in government, the Liberals need to win support to block the Conservatives.

The Liberal leadership will be critical to the fortunes of both the Conservatives and the Liberals. A divided Liberal party (or anything that has a whiff of inappropriate behaviour by a leadership campaign) will be good news for the Harper Conservatives. If the Liberals come out united and have a leader who can have some sort of appeal to Quebecers – they will be back in the game.

To get the stats for our national ballot visit the Supporting Material box on the right. To get our other polls visit www.sesresearch.com.

Rate, comment or respond below.

Nik

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In essence, Quebecers will decide the next government… and how we fare in the RO... more

gjones (Ontario) 16 Nov 06:52

I am a conservative, but not a Conservative. Mr. Harper will need to solve the A... more

Johnccc (Nova Scotia) 16 Nov 08:53

I believe Afghanistan and foreign policy may be having an effect in Quebec, but ... more

martin (Ontario) 16 Nov 10:02

I would suggest that focussing on electoral reform is needed, but not the most u... more

PMK (Ontario) 16 Nov 10:01

I am a conservative, but not a Conservative. Mr. Harper will need to solve the A... more

Johnccc (Nova Scotia) 16 Nov 08:53

I believe Afghanistan and foreign policy may be having an effect in Quebec, but ... more

martin (Ontario) 16 Nov 10:02

Comments

mathilda

Could you do "math sets '" on the liberal leadership race?Rae has said he would draw from the NDP.. but that support is falling.Kennedy has little support from Quebec and Dion little in the west. I think Rae's comments are flawed and he can' t do the math. Can you do the combinations?

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16 Nov 06:44

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gjones

In essence, Quebecers will decide the next government… and how we fare in the ROC. Strangely prescient about this Conservative Party’s agenda, with its roots in Fundamentalism rather than the party they gave their hearts to under Brian Mulroney, Quebecers have yet to be offered a reason to abandon the Bloc.

Which appears to mean minority governments in Canada for the next ten years, or at least until the Conservatives or Liberals make a mistake of such epic proportions that they drive their voters into the arms of the other.

There is no doubt that Canadian Politics is the best sport there is!

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16 Nov 06:52

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Johnccc

I am a conservative, but not a Conservative. Mr. Harper will need to solve the Afghanistan problem, or I predict he will lose the next election. He needs to either pull our troops out of that country or at least move them out of Kandahar, where Canada will then be in a position to do more humanitarian work. If he does that, I am not cocerned about re-election of the government. The government is sitting on a mountain of cash to solve the fiscal imbalance and come up with an environmental plan that satisfies Quebec.

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16 Nov 08:53

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TorontoCrawler

It would be more interesting for analytical purposes if you could break up the "West" into smaller regions (e.g. B.C., Alberta, and Sask/Man.), and also if you could break up Ontario into the GTA, and the rest of the province (and perhaps the same for Quebec between Montreal and the rest). These smaller areas have widely divergent voting patterns that can't just be lumped into one big area for a more detailed analysis of possible seat results.

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16 Nov 09:59

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martin

I believe Afghanistan and foreign policy may be having an effect in Quebec, but let's not forget the impact of some recent (smaller) events which, when added together, are changing people's impressions of the Conservative government and causing some level of disapointment: The broken promise on income trusts, the constant blaming of the previous government (like a broken record), Garth Turner's expulsion from the party, Ambrose's weak performance on the environment, an accountability act which reduces transparency, a lockdown on what MP's are allowed to say... and the list goes on.

This all adds up to a feeling that the new government is no better (and in some senses worse) than the previous government. Canadians are not stupid. They are quickly realising that the promise of a more open and democratic government was nothing more than a pipe dream.

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16 Nov 10:02

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Jim

For some more than a little disappointment.

In weakening access to information provisions (notwithstanding increasing the scope of its coverage), the "New" Government has taken direct aim at one of the most significant tools available available to Canadians seeking accountability of government.

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16 Nov 12:53

TorontoCrawler

Garth Turner's antics and self-promotion in the past week have shown exactly why the Conservatives were right in kicking him out of the party. Notice how nobody else seems to exactly be welcoming him with open arms, and how both Global National and CTV National News on Tuesday gave his "shocking press conference " zero coverage - they've realized what a waste of time he is. Great editorial today in the National Post on why we have parties and caucuses in parliament.... so that there can be common ground to make things actually function properly, and everyone isn't doing their own little thing - people have to compromise to be effective within a party caucus. Garth is all about himself and his Web site- he doesn't or has never really cared about the party system, confidentiality of others, or compromising with anyone else.

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16 Nov 15:07

martin

That's interesting because this government, when it was in opposition, criticized the previous government for concentrating too much power in the PMO. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I find it a bit disturbing that the conservatives (and the National Post it seems) have changed their position, now singing the praises of unity and a firm control of the caucus. It is this kind of broken promise of greater transparency and accountability, that is driving the polls south for the conservatives. Heck, I voted for these guys and am seriously disappointed that we're getting more of the same thing, even worse!

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16 Nov 15:50

TorontoCrawler

There is a line between not allowing individual MPs in voicing their opinions at all, and then divulging what is supposed to be a confidential and internal discussion all over your blog. He clearly crossed that line. You try sticking up on your blog/Web site all of the private, internal discussions at whatever company/organization that you work at, and see what happens to yourself. Or heck, even a private conversation between you and a friend/family, and see what they say to you the next day.

It's actually fortunate for Turner's sake that he wasn't put into Cabinet like he was wishing for, he probably would have stuck Cabinet minutes or spewed off his opinions on what happened in those meetings all over his blog - in this situation, divulging discussions that take place in Privy Council (Cabinet) is a chargeable and prisonable offense, as these are considered to be in the Top Secret category of government classification.

Anyways, until his next financial planning TV show, book or whatever comes on, Turner's 2 minutes of fame is over - as I said, I had been expecting to see some mention of him on either Global (5:30) or CTV's National (11 pm) newscasts on Tuesday of his press conference after Garth all weekend was continually promoting his "shocking news" announcement that he would reveal. The media went, saw that he was wasting their time and was just doing his usual self-promotion, and they dropped it from the newscast. I would expect that the next time he tries a similar stunt, he isn't going to get much response.

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16 Nov 16:26

martin

I agree that the whole Turner even was a non event, especially for the media who were wringing their hands in anticipation. My point is that the unelected party leaders blackballed a democratically elected member of their own party because he posted dissenting opinions on his blog (he's been accused of leaking party secrets but I have seen no evidence of this).

You're sidetracking this whole discussion - please take a look at my original post. My point is that the new government has been making a number of small mistakes, all of these adding up to a decay in their support from the electorate. You can't argue with the numbers - I'm just offering a plausible explanation.

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16 Nov 17:11

TorontoCrawler

I actually did see a couple of posts referred to on a couple of the Blogging Tories blogs about previously posted items that mysteriously disappeared during the 12 hours or so immediately after his booting, where he was writing about what was discussed within caucus. I believe Stephen Taylor (might be wrong about it being his blog) even had snapshots of the exact same post "before" and "after". It was a few weeks ago, so i can't recall the details now, but there were clearly items that were removed during those 12 hours... I guess he was trying to hide the offending posts that discussed caucus? There's also been reports that he censors out any comments in the blog that are critical of him. One final note on this topic, he wasn't booted by the party leaders, it was his fellow elected Ontario MPs who wanted him out.

Back to your point, there's been a decay in support, yes, but it's better that it be now than a few months from now during an election. I've doubted Harper before on multiple occasions, and have even campaigned against him during the 2004 leadership race (going into the merger as an ex-Progressive Conservative and supporting Tony Clement), and he has amazed me with his political wits and strategy every single time, such that I no longer doubt his strategy. The drop may have been largely because of the Income Trust thing, when this poll was taken in the aftermath of, but that will blow over once the majority of people who actually have a properly diversified portfolio (i.e. not those idiots they were interviewing on TV that put in 80% of their assets into income trusts, when financial advisors had been warning for ages not to put in more than 10%), see that their total portfolio value has actually gone up on their next statements. On foreign policy - also may be an impact, but historically, nobody votes on foreign policy, for the majority of voters, it's what is best for their pocketbook. What's important is that a leader shows they're willing to make a tough decision that's right even if politically unpopular, and they stick and defend it (i.e. be the opposite of Paul Martin). On income trusts, it was clearly bad policy for Canada to keep it the way it was (and not even the Liberals are denying that), so he changed it and accepted the short-term pain.

Just from my own personal observations: 1) from friends I've talked to in the past month or two... 3 former die-hard Libs. (and I mean die-hard) when they were in school, same demographic as myself: all early 30s, 905ers or outer 416ers, university-educated, visible minorities, and 2nd gen. Cdns, have told me that they've switched over to the Tories as the Liberals have swung too far to the left for them in the past two years, and Harper's style has impressed them. 2) The increase in support and pride in the military is also something that I've noticed since January. That is something that the Liberals will never be able to claim credit for. Did those people just come out of nowhere? Items like these make me doubt the sudden drop in poll numbers... quite frankly, in all my years of following politics, polls in between election campaigns rarely actually mean anything, as they will widely swing when a campaign is actually called. Just for historical perspective, in Jan. 1988, Mulroney's PCs were polling in third behind the Liberals, and Ed Broadbent's NDP was at an all-time high, something like 38%. A few months later, Mulroney won his 2nd majority government, and the NDP didn't even win official opposition. Kim Campbell was also leading the polls 3 months prior to the 1993 election... I don't think I need to mention what happened to her.

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16 Nov 21:43

TorontoCrawler

I should mention that the "12 hours" that I was referring to in my reply is the 12 hours right after Garth was booted when Garth Turner's Website blog immediately went completely offline, for those not familiar with his site.

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16 Nov 22:20

Johnccc

Spoken like a true Liberal, Martin. Tell me, what did the Liberals accomplish on the environment over 12 years, other than failing to meet their Kyoto committments by 35%?

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16 Nov 16:58

martin

I'm not here to talk about the Liberals. (Why is it that the only defense for the conservatives seems to be to attack the previous government?) The subject we are here to discuss, is why the conservatives are slipping in the polls. I'm simply trying to give a plausible explanation: The conservatives are not living up to the standards that were promised during the campaign.

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16 Nov 17:14

Johnccc

OK, let's talk about standards for a minute.

How about the stuffing of $7,000. in a brown envelope on a restaurant table in Montreal? Are those the standards to value, where my money and the money of millions of other Canadians was stolen by liberals? Those standards martin?

I think I'll pass on the standards of Corriveau, Brault, Gagliano and liberals.

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16 Nov 17:42

martin

You really are missing the point. Let me ask you a simple question: Why are the conservatives slipping in the polls? I've given my theory now let's hear yours. Try not to use the word "Liberal" if you can help it.

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16 Nov 20:28

PMK

John:

I tend to think that most Canadians would be open to allowing politicians to speak their minds on issues that matter to them. Call me naive, but I hope that voters are looking for openess to ideas and intelligence from their politicians.

Also, hoping to be a realist, I do appreciate the need for party discipline in a parliamentary system. Maybe it's time for us to make some changes to the system. Scott Feschuk had some good ideas on changing Question Period in the current MacIeans.

Finally, I sense that this Lib. vs. Conservative thing tends to be a bit too agressive for most people. Canada has too many challenges ahead of it and we need as much public buy-in for the hard choices that we are going to have to make on the environment, health care and the aging population and global poverty/pandemics.

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16 Nov 17:27

martin

PMK, thanks for pulling this out of the gutter.

Too many of these blogs are poisoned by harsh rhetoric, insult versus counter-insult, to the point that it discourages frank discussion about the issues. I was very critical of the Liberals when they were in power (in fact I voted against them in the last election) and now I am equally critical of the Conservatives because they aren't living up to their promises. This is why individuals should try to judge politicians on each issue, not based on the party they belong to. Similarly, MP's should generally be free to vote according to their conscience or the constituents they represent, hopefully both. They should definitely not be muzzled, or in the extreme case, be booted from the caucus.

I truly believe that change is in the air, because voters are tired of the old ways of both major parties.

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16 Nov 20:41

TorontoCrawler

I agree with you on judging your local representative on individual issues... if we had a Congressional or Republic system, and a separate Executive branch of government, where a vote against the President/Chancellor/whatever doesn't mean the government immediately falls. As long as we have the current Parliamentary form of government, MPs have to vote with the parties they belong to on budgetary or other critical issues, otherwise it's considered an immediate loss of confidence if a government motion was defeated.

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16 Nov 21:58

alfeee

Hi Martin - I feel that the drop in the popularity of the Conservatives reflects what always happens when a party is in power and many of us take advantage of our opportunity to be critical - its the Canadian way. I feel, quite honestly and ingeneral terms, that the Conservatives have done an admirable job of addressing and sticking to the points in the agenda they presented to us prior to the election (with the single exception of the trust issue). I think that when Bell was going to follow Telus's lead they got real concerned that the trend would seriously jeopardize the country.

Their agends included presenting the question of "same sex" marriage. Many people felt the topic wasn't discussed in a free forum as we know it was not so the Conservatives presented it knowing that it will doubtless be rejected but the opportunity to defend positions needed to be provided in a free forum. Kyoto represented unattainable goals although its objectives remain pure. We absolutely must reduce pollution and there are many avenues to do so - many feel we must set hard yet achievable objectives for Canada and meet them. These people consider time as being too precious for the politics of Kyoto. I find the most Canadians I know feel better about being a Canadian today with a Conservative government.

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30 Nov 17:46

martin

Hi alfeee,

While I don't necessarily agree with your general conclusions, I do appreciate your comments.

We can debate the individual issues until the end of time (which I'm not tempted to get into here), but you raise an interesting point about promises (kept and broken).

As I watch the Liberal leadership convention and ponder the upcoming election, I can't help but notice how candidates and parties go out of their way to make bold promises about this or that. Inevitably, either because conditions change, or because opposition members don't have all the facts when they make the promises, such promises are broken.

The income trust is such an example where, had the conservatives probably had more data, they would never have made a promise they would later realise is faulty. So I forgive them, because their decision was the right one. Similarly, I have to forgive Chretien for breaking his promise on the GST, for roughly the same reasons (let's assume).

My point is, we should select a party based on ideology and general policies, but not on specific promises. Once in power, they should stay true to that ideology and those general policies, but they should be given a certain leeway in terms of how they implement those policies.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less that the conservatives kept their promise on the GST cut. In fact I would have been happier if they had broken that one. Ditto for the $100 daycare cheque that I receive each month (and since not a single new daycare spot has been created, I'm forced to spend the $100 on beer and popcorn!!!). Should stupid promises be kept? I don't think so, and Mr. Harper proved it on income trusts. Should he be skewered or cheered?

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30 Nov 18:21

martin

To reinforce my opinion that a large number of small issues is eroding public confidence in our new government, Jeffrey Simpson published an opinion along the same lines:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061117.wsimpson17/BNStory/National/home

He states that: "A curious inability to move forward, coupled with a prickly defensiveness but occasional decisiveness, characterizes the government. The main reason: a centralization of power in the Prime Minister's Office that exceeds anything Ottawa has seen — and that's saying something."

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17 Nov 16:01

Nik Nanos (The Pollster)

Nik here - based on my experience it is rarely one issue or event that moves opinion but the cumulative impact of a number of issues that either erode or bolster public opinion. I would agree with you and Jeffrey Simpson.

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17 Nov 16:30

sheila

In jumping in here, I may be seeing things too simplistically, and am perhaps being a bit naive, but shouldn't all parties be providing us with solid platforms, honourable leadership, someone with a vision of where they want to take Canada and Canadians? Shouldn't party platforms represent how we see ourselves in the world, and how we want ourselves to contribute to the world? I continually read about what one party can bring to that province, what another party can promise and supply to another province. No one province should be able to hold the rest of the country's breath, whether its in eastern, central, western or northern Canada.

Where's the leadership Canadians can trust? I think far beyond electoral reform, vote splitting, voting this to block that, promising this while taking away that, we should look at a more fundamental issue - where are the visionaries, the orators, the inspirers, the catalysts that bring all of our dreams together to continue to build a great country? Where is the leader that can capture Canadians' imaginations in being the best we can be? Why is our political climate not bringing these people forward?

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17 Nov 22:47

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Nik Nanos (The Pollster)

New Stats - Ballot by Gender.....More potential turbulence for the Conservatives. I've taken a look at the ballot by gender and it looks like the Conservatives lost most of their support over the past 90 days among men. Check out support materials - 200611 Ballot by Gender. Back in August the Conservatives had a 13 point advantage over the Liberals among men.....that advantage has been cut in half to about 6 points. This should be monitored to see if it is a longer term trend.

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20 Nov 16:25

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Jan from Whitby

Jan from Whitby,
There is nothing better for the Conservative Party of Canada and the PM to do than stay true to their principles and act accordingly.
Canadians will respond favourably to any political leadership as long as it effective and above board.

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23 Nov 07:26

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