The longitudinal tracking on the leadership index shows that Harper still has a comfortable lead but that his leadership numbers have slid, as has Ignatieff’s. Even with the drop in ballot box support for the Conservatives over the past month, Harper still maintains a comfortable lead over the other federal party leaders. Also of note, Layton (52.2) has momentarily surpassed Ignatieff (40.3) on the index.
Both Harper and Ignatieff are likely dealing with a residual drag from previous controversial political decisions. For Harper, it was the prorogation of parliament. For Ignatieff, it’s likely his previous strategy to provoke an election this past fall. Moreover Ignatieff’s relatively low profile has meant there have been few opportunities to move the numbers.
The upcoming session of Parliament will be critical for both Harper and Ignatieff. For Harper, he needs to put behind him the controversy related to prorogation. For Ignatieff, it is a key opportunity to jump-start his profile and personal definition among Canadians.
The detailed tables and methodology are posted on our website. You can also register to receive automatic polling updates.
Best PM: As you may know, [Rotate] Michael Ignatieff is the leader of the federal Liberal Party, Stephen Harper is the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Jack Layton is the leader of the federal NDP, Gilles Duceppe is leader of the Bloc Quebecois and Elizabeth May is the leader of the federal Green Party. Of the following individuals, who do you think would make the best Prime Minister?
The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the Nanos National Omnibus survey completed between December 10th and December 13th 2009.
National (n=1,001)
The Best PM
Stephen Harper: 32.0% (-2.8)
Jack Layton: 18.1% (+3.2)
Michael Ignatieff: 16.1% (-1.6)
Elizabeth May: 6.9% (+2.4)
Gilles Duceppe: 5.8% (-0.7)
None of them: 11.7% (-2.7)
Unsure:9.4% (-3.2)
Leadership Index Questions: As you may know, [Rotate] Michael Ignatieff is the leader of the federal Liberal Party, Stephen Harper is the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Jack Layton is the leader of the federal NDP, Gilles Duceppe is leader of the Bloc Quebecois and Elizabeth May is the leader of the federal Green Party. Which of the federal leaders would you best describe as:
The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the Nanos National Omnibus survey completed between December 10th and December 13th 2009.
National (n=1,001)
The most trustworthy leader
Stephen Harper: 25.0% (-4.3)
Jack Layton: 20.8% (+4.4)
Michael Ignatieff: 10.4% (-0.5)
Elizabeth May: 9.8% (+5.2)
Gilles Duceppe: 7.8% (+1.5)
None of them/Undecided: 26.2% (-6.4)
The most competent leader
Stephen Harper: 33.6% (-1.7)
Jack Layton: 14.2% (+3.4)
Michael Ignatieff: 13.9% (+0.6)
Gilles Duceppe: 6.5% (+0.8)
Elizabeth May: 3.4% (+1.1)
None of them/Undecided: 28.4% (-4.2)
The leader with the best vision for Canada’s future
Stephen Harper: 26.8% (-3.2)
Jack Layton: 17.2% (+3.2)
Michael Ignatieff: 16.0% (+1.2)
Elizabeth May: 6.4% (+3.6)
Gilles Duceppe: 2.9% (-0.5)
None of them/Undecided: 30.7% (-4.2)
Leadership Index Score
Stephen Harper: 85.4 (-9.2)
Jack Layton: 52.2 (+11.0)
Michael Ignatieff: 40.3 (+1.3)
Elizabeth May: 19.6 (+9.9)
Gilles Duceppe: 17.2 (+1.8)
Feel free to forward this e-mail. Any use of the poll should identify the source as the latest “Nanos Leadership Index.”
What do you think?
Cheers,
NJN
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I repeat what I have said before and that is Harper will likely get a small majo... more
Tom Good (British Columbia) 15 Feb 03:44
I know I'm repeating this ad nauseum but I don't place leadership as a requireme... more
Bernie (Ontario) 15 Feb 07:55
Well Nick, why do you say "Layton has momentarily surpassed Ignatieff". Momentar... more
arbie (Ontario) 15 Feb 10:29
There is a disconnect between voter intention and your statement. The voting int... more
sasquatch (Alberta) 15 Feb 14:52
Arbie: Yes, there needs to be electoral reform whereby an MP needs 50% plus one ... more
Tom Good (British Columbia) 15 Feb 15:31
Arbie: In BC we have had a number of governments who were coalitions of Liberal... more
Tom Good (British Columbia) 15 Feb 18:06
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4 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Tom Good
I repeat what I have said before and that is Harper will likely get a small majority, the Liberals will likely get a leadership convention and the NDP will likely get Official Opposition. "WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE" is still a very valid question. The Government of Canada will continue at a new low for participatory democracy.
Now here is a thought. If the far right and the right of centre can combine to form what is currently called the Conservatives, who still appear as lacking majority appeal, why could this not happen for the centre and the left of centre ??????? Canada would tend to have two major national parties which would be good for governance and stability----something we have not seen in the land for almost a decade.
[updated Mon Feb 15 03:44:23 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 03:44
19 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Bernie
I know I'm repeating this ad nauseum but I don't place leadership as a requirement for a politician. As a result I would have to answer " none of them".
My vote will go the the first politician who says to the people.
"I am not a leader. I am a follower. I'll seek out the majority of opinions on any policy and I will do the wishes of the majority, unless of it's an opinion that's contrary to my personal convictions. In that case, I'd resign."
That alone would inspire me to vote for him/her.
There is no question that Harper is the least trustworthy of all them. He lies and insults us constantly. I don't trust anyone who willingly and deliberately lies to me.
Harper is not competent. He makes too many mistakes. A competent politician in his position could easily get a majority. Four years and still no closer and still saying and doing the wrong things. Things that undermine respect for or trust in his government.
Ignatieff doesn't reveal the competence required for a PM.
The others are not tested enough to show how competent they might be.
Harper has no vision of Canada that I would want to live in. In fact only Elizabeth May has a vision that resonates with me.
[updated Mon Feb 15 07:55:11 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 07:55
19 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
arbie
Well Nick, why do you say "Layton has momentarily surpassed Ignatieff". Momentarily? Does this reflect an establishment status quoi thinking pattern. I might suggest that Harper is momentarily leading Layton, but that would simply reflect my thinking that Layton is the best.
[updated Mon Feb 15 10:29:41 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 10:29
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wlloydmac
- Harper Leadership Index ??? - It's Time For Nanos to Recalibrate
The Nanos 'Leadership Index' is Very Misleading to say the least.
Harper's numbers are entirely explained by assuming a core of die-hard supporters of around 33%. How about some Demographics Nanos - that would be interesting.
And, these days with Harper's true extreme right wing 'colours' starting to bulge out over the Hype, they have to be die-hard, indeed, to still support him, despite the damage to Canadian Democracy.
The actual results of the Poll results Nanos is basing his 'Leadeship Index' (see:
nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W10-T411E.pdf
are as follows:
The Best PM
Stephen Harper: 32.0% (-2.8)
- within the 33% point - considering margin of error (3.1 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20) - 1/3 of Canadians like him as PM??? what's he doing running this country
The most trustworthy leader
Stephen Harper: 25.0% (-4.3)
- definitely down from the 33% point -even considering margin of error- and rightfully so, give Harper's abuse of his Office and attack on Canadian Democracy
The most competent leader
Stephen Harper: 33.6% (-1.7)
- within the 33% point - considering margin of error - there's that die-hard 33% manifesting itself!
The leader with the best vision for Canada#s future
Stephen Harper: 26.8% (-3.2)
- definitely down from the 33% point - even considering margin of error- and rightfully so - yeh, Harper's vision for most of his public life is to tear Canada asunder, apparently some people like that, or don't understand what Harper is really all about
A break down by Province would be very interesting (although I suspect that the result can be easily predicted) and perhaps Nanos would be courteous enough to provide that for us.
These number are actually down from the last time (and Harper index is down 10%) as one would expect (at least there are some die-hards that are taking a serious second thought at what Harper is doing).
To have any meaning whatsoever, any "Leadership Index' for Harper ought to be how many points away from the 33% point.
All you non-Haperites that don't take the 33% core of die-hard support for Harper seriously do so at your own peril.
Lloyd MacILquham cicblog.com/comments.html
[updated Mon Feb 15 13:13:29 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 13:13
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dgkfghlgjkgla (suspended for abuse)
this is bizarre. iggy is actually up in most categories, but layton is way up. i'm usually pretty good at reading polls - while i'm often controversial, i'm usually eventually proven right - but i'm not certain how to interpret this relative to all of the polls that have them neck-to-neck. i have three suggestions.
1) tinfoil hat approach. no further comment.
2) it's a temporary swing to layton due to his health concerns. i'm not convinced as those that don't support the ndp explicitly tend to oppose them firmly.
3) what it demonstrates is that canadians are eager to turf harper and are even eager to vote liberal in order to do it but still have reservations about ignatieff.
if that's the case, harper should be worried because the scenario should sound familiar. those of us with memories remember that harper initially became prime minister under similar circumstances; canadians were eager to ditch martin and were even eager to vote conservative to do so but were not eager to vote for harper. of course, they did.
i've always had reservations about the leadership index because i've never been able to observe or even fathom a causal relation between voter intent and...what would you call it? opinion about the party leaders? the whole concept is directly contradictory to the way our parliamentary system is constructed, which is local, local, local and when it's not local it's primarily partisan. outside of the five ridings where the leaders are running, the connection just strikes me as specious.
i wouldn't take this too seriously as even if it's totally accurate that doesn't mean it will have any effect on voting intent. i wouldn't take that one poll that had liberal support at 37% too seriously either, or at least not yet.
[updated Mon Feb 15 14:18:14 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 14:18
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RonaldODowd
"Going" Conservative...
To pull, or not to pull, that is the Conservative question! I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the next two polls will be instrumental in determining whether the Harper government pulls the table right out from under itself.
IMHO, if the polls stay basically where they are with the exception of Environics, my guess would be no. But if Environics becomes a trend of two or three -- perhaps the Prime Minister may decide to roll the dice reasoning that it won't get any better than this anytime soon. He also knows that the fall, or even worse 2011, will be both unforeseen economic domino time à la European Union not to mention next year's budget courtesy of your local dentist!
Just when we thought politics was predictable...the sands of electoral time may be about to shift once again.
[updated Mon Feb 15 15:33:16 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 15:33
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Zachary Smith
To pull or not to pull that is the question.
I do not disagree with your time line going forward 2011 and 2012, as there is a whole world of hurt waiting for the next Government, unless it is a majority and I do not see that happening.
I keep going back to the recent Ekos poll that is showing that Canadians look to be positioned to punish the Liberals with their tax and spend platform, because with only 14% of Canadians calling for tax increases and 10% willing to increase the deficit the Liberals numbers are not there for their platform.
Now that is not to say that Canadians will not change their mind about program cuts once they start occurring and start to understand that their favourite program is one that is being cut.
And from where I sit, the Conservatives do not have to pull the plug and all they are required to do is wait as the Liberals flip flop from one issue to the other and say that the Conservative programs are bad Government.
The problem is that they say one thing and then do another and then fall in behind the Conservatives to avoid the election and if the Liberals force an election, so be it, as the Liberals will be running on tax and spend not cut and save...
The Conservatives with control of the Senate will quietly pull the Liberal party apart with the wedge issues that the Conservatives have indenified and will control the direction that the house takes.
Fact or fiction, time will tell.
[updated Mon Feb 15 15:54:58 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 15:54
RonaldODowd
Zachary Smith,
Now there's the rub in being the opposition: by necessity, you have to come up with a platform -- you can start slowly and cost; or you can go whole hog from the get go. In these economic times, the former is the only logical choice.
However, as you say, how does one square the circle? By necessity, even modest proposals require increased revenue...to my mind, that means minimal tax increases along with not inconsequential program cuts. A government-in-waiting can only afford to throw a few darts at the board and had better get it right the first time and hit the damned bullseye.
Put another way, run narrowly only on what Canadians truly want in terms of program expansion and be damned sure that their is a defined and predetermined consensus on paying for it. Easier said than done.
[updated Mon Feb 15 16:04:48 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 16:04
Zachary Smith
I will start with what you ended with and end with what you started with.
Easier said than done and now there's the rub.
[updated Mon Feb 15 16:09:11 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 16:09
hollinm
Ronald....I know you are conversing with Zachary but I would add one thing and I think you and I discussed it briefly before.
However, Iffy did it again today. Supporting the fat cat banker who wants increased taxation for the plebs but he did not suggest that the big corporations would refuse the corporate tax cuts that Harper implemented over the past two budgets.
He has set himself up in the next election to be the leader who through his support of Clark wants higher taxes while the PM is siding with ordinary Canadians who do not want tax increases.
Perhaps you should tell Iffy the ads are already in the can for the next election.
Suggesting a national daycare program regardless of the size of the deficit even if Canadians believe it and they probably don't without costing it adds to the drama as a tax and spend Liberal. He has left is flank open and it will be exposed for all to see in the next election.
[updated Mon Feb 15 20:40:25 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 20:40
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Why am I not surprised to hear that your ads are ready to go. Conservatives are many things -- including always organized for battle!
You give me far too much credit. I'm Ron, not Peter Donolo. All parties, not just Liberals should be looking for national consensus on future priorities. Once that is achieved, then comes agreement on costing and how to pay for each priority that has been delineated. Go too far off the reservation means getting burned. In the final analysis, you have to finesse a delicate balance between reducing spending and raising revenue. You already know my views on the subject.
Hollinm, you seem to take it for granted that what we are witnessing is the New and Improved version of the Harper Liberal Trap...IMHO, Michael has not been painted into a corner. It's all in the wrist, remember! You know what I mean. Give it time. Perhaps we will do just fine. Perhaps we will make a mistake. Might as well stay tuned and see what happens.
[updated Mon Feb 15 21:05:11 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 21:05
hollinm
Ronald.....with your reference to "all in the wrist" are you saying Iffy is effete? Just asking.
You know as well as I do a campaign of 37 days in an election is not very much time to get your message out and when you continually put bullseyes on your back you spend most of your time defending yourself.
The Conservatives always have to be ready because you can never underestimate the degree to which the Liberal party along with their buddies in the media will say something outrageous or fabricate something i.e. soldiers in the street etc. etc. So the Conservatives are always ready.
If Iffy continues defending Clark in the media, keeps talking about higher taxes, talking about uncosted national daycare program and does not put forward policies that connect with Canadians your party will be defeated in the next election.
There will never be consensus on policy because the Liberals want Harper to implement their policies. In other words the Liberals think they are still in power and unless Harper caves they will create as much havoc as they can so they can say the Harper government is not co-operating to "make parliament work".
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:17:38 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:17
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
That was supposed to be a tennis analogy. Oops, as I turn shades of red!
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:21:53 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:21
hollinm
Ronald.....I knew what you were referring to. I just wanted to tweak you a bit and show you Conservatives do have a sense of humour.
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:32:45 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:32
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
I already knew that as a FORMER Conservative. As a Red Tory, it was either laugh or cry...
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:34:46 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:34
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
I have to disagree. In the final analysis, it is rather immaterial what both parties want. What is relevant is what Canadians want -- how far are THEY willing to push the spending envelope and where will they generally agree to give the government either implied consent or at least, the benefit of the doubt.
That is not clear by a longshot. The party that correctly detects the electorate's pulse is in for a breakout. That means advantage Liberals because this government has gone as far as it can on a Liberal-lite program. To do anything further will lead to more than quiet grumbling internally in the CPC.
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:27:23 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:27
hollinm
Ronald.....I know any party that advocates higher taxes for the regular citizen is not going to win an election. It is vastly different than 1993. The country was broke and our deficit was running rampant.
Today most economists are suggesting our deficit is quite manageable and if we keep spending under control it will be reduced over time.
There is no Canadian citizen who believes that there are no savings to be had in the government today. Canadians will believe that a Conservative government would be more likely to find those savings and take the steps needed to reduce the size of government before increasing taxes.
On the other hand Canadians knew that we had the highest personal tax rates among the G7 when Chretien was in power despite amassing sizeable surpluses. They also know that Liberals love to tax and spend and Iffy has confirmed his position on taxes despite denying it.
Suggesting a national daycare program that could cost upwards of $10 billion annually despite the size of the deficit and a cap and trade system that will hobble the economy is not a winning strategy. However, have at it.
There will be two competing visions in the next election and we will certainly see what side the ordinary citizens of this country stands. It won't be with Iffy and his fat cat banker who refused to turn back the corporate tax reduction that Harper so generously gave them.
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:43:52 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:43
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
On one thing we agree: cap and trade is as dead as those golden door knobs...Obama does not have the political clout needed to get it through Congress. And besides, with all the other shit he has to shovel, he really does not need a C&T headache. He already has more than enough migraines.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:00:56 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:00
hollinm
Ronald....I agree with you.
As I have mentioned I am currently in the States and boy is Obama getting it in spades.
Unfortunately I only get CNN here as the main political station. They keep arguing about gridlock in the Congress.
Why is there gridlock? The Democrats have full control of both Houses and the Presidency. They could have done anything they wanted. They are having problems in their own party, not the Republicans.
There is a real backlash against Obama and his administration and his poll numbers are falling like a brick.
The House has passed a cap and trade bill but the Senate will not touch it with a 10 foot pole.
No cap and trade for the States. No cap and trade for Canada. Minor changes through the EPA both in Canada and the States. However, that is it. If Canada is going to be a laughing stock so will the States.
By the way I could care less what the communists and the socialist governments of Asia and the European Union think about us.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:27:23 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:27
Zachary Smith
Here is the latest flip flop as the Liberasl have moved from a bill on progration to a letter saying please Mr. Harper consider this and judging from the current change in direction it would appear that Ignatieff has received legal advice that stated not to follow up with the bill.
All Harper has to do is sit there and do nothing, just as he did with the previous letter from the Liberals and let the Liberasl stew.
Monday, February 15, 2010 1:01 PM, What the Liberals want, Jane Taber
1) Accusing the Prime Minster of shutting down Parliament to avoid transparency and accountability, Michael Ignatieff wants Stephen Harper to co-operate on striking a special committee to blunt his power to prorogue.
2) “It would be a positive sign of good faith if your party joined with our in supporting [the committee] ...,” writes the Liberal leader in a letter released today to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
3) Mr. Ignatieff's seven-page letter outlines his party's suggestions for measures the Liberals could support when Parliament returns for a new session in early March.
4a) He is not rattling the election sabre, however, being careful to avoid any talk of trying to bring down the government on its March budget, for example.
4b) That's because Canadians were outraged by his boasting last summer and fall that he would bring down the minority Harper government.
[updated Mon Feb 15 16:04:30 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 16:04
RonaldODowd
Zachary Smith,
Once an olive branch is proffered, it's often in one's own interest to take hold of it. This government sees things differently. It will be interesting to see how that works out for them.
[updated Mon Feb 15 16:08:15 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 16:08
RonaldODowd
I would remind readers that we remain in a two-year cycle whose main theme continues to be "Making Parliament Work" -- that was the message delivered by the voters and the Canadian people at large.
How will the public react if this government thumbs its nose (perhaps repeatedly) at government reform meant to make our institutions more reflective of the modern world and more accountable to both Canadians and Parliament itself?
Is this truly what Canadians voted for in the last election? Are we content to let the flame of parliamentary democracy be extinguished in favour of a unilateral assessment made by an unaccountable government? What comes next? Will Ottawa be burning as government violins enthusiastically play the same old tune?
I don't know where you stand but I'm four square in favour of reform. Bring our parliamentary institutions into the heart of the 21st century. Canada will be nothing but better for it.
[updated Mon Feb 15 16:32:38 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 16:32
Zachary Smith
This is a two for reply.
When one offers up the branch of peace, one should not try to beat the other party over the head with it before offering it and you are correct it will be interested to see how it works out for them - with my them being all four parties not just the Consrvatives.
Second part, reform - all for it but not proportional representation, I hold opinions very close to my dad's and that there should be less power in the PMO and I do mean less power in the PMO from all parties.
Bring back the backbencher, drop all the whipped votes and I mean all votes, drop the interference from the head office as to who can run and who cannot and get a real grass roots movement going for all parties.
Do that and I am in, other wise we will be just trading one bad system for another bad system.
[updated Mon Feb 15 17:59:07 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 17:59
RonaldODowd
Zachary,
With respect, I admire your suggestions but the PMO is control-freak central. That is not this Prime Minister's fault alone. It goes all the way back to Trudeau...
Hopefully, one day you can have a conversation with Leona Aglukkaq. She will be able to tell you about the excellent system of government that exists in Nunavut. Some people ridiculed the consensus building nature of their government. As far as I'm concerned, it is so much better than the adversarial system that exists across the rest of Canada.
[updated Mon Feb 15 20:12:42 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 20:12
hollinm
Ronald....then you must be one of those that think we should open up the constitution and look at everything. That's not going to happen with this PM, minority or majority.
I quote....."let the flame of parliamentary democracy be extinguished in favour of a unilateral assessment made by an unaccountable government"?
You must have one of Iffy's speech writers doing your commentary. Way over the top man. A 22 day extension of the Xmas break does not end democracy in Canada. Come on...get real.
[updated Mon Feb 15 20:56:55 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 20:56
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
No, amending the constitution is nothing but a can of worms. Besides, we have 13 solitudes in Canada -- not just 2...we have to integrate Quebec but that is for another day, which remains a long way off.
As I've said, as presently constituted, prorogation is legal and legitimate as a parliamentary manoeuvre but that does not make it democratically legitimate, particularly in the context of a MINORITY House.
We stand at an impasse. Neither of us will change the other's mind on this one.
[updated Mon Feb 15 21:14:44 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 21:14
hollinm
Ronald....so what you are saying is that prorogation which has been around since confederation is not democratically legitimate.
Where was your outrage when Chretien prorogued for 4 mos. while he avoided adscam and allowed Martin to form his government?
Where was the outrage by the media and others when Bob Rae prorogued Ontario 4 times for 4 mos. at a time to avoid defeat in the House and to avoid accountability as he spent the province into oblivion?
You are being selective in your support or abhorrence at the prorogation issue. I submit that Harper had no choice but to prorogue last year to save the country from the coalition of the idiots.
Regardless of Harper's reasons for proroguing he stopped Parliament for 22 extra days. How is this an affront to democracy? How did it stop the opposition parties from talking? How did it prevent the media from doing their jobs? It is pure unadulterated bullshit and you know it.
Prorogation is a legitimate tool of the governement particuarly in a minority parliament because the balance is in favour of the opposition parties.
All of this is really silly. The opposition has full control Ronald. If they truly feel that the government is undemocratic etc etc. then vote non confidence. Trying to force through legisilation which will be unconstitional is a waste of time.
As I have said before. It is all about the detainee issue and the perceived momentum that has been lost by the prorogation. The opposition and the media thought they had a good thing going and Harper put an end to it with prorogation.
However, you are right. We will agree to disagree but I can tell you if Iffy and the gang support the budget and allow this "undemocratic" prime minister to continue to govern the whole issue will be shown to be a farce.
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:31:51 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:31
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
That's the nice thing about a coin toss -- it either goes for you or against you...nothing like a good 50-50 chance. (The budget had better make damned interesting reading!)
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:36:02 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:36
hollinm
Ronald.....The budget could go either way depending on whether Harper wants an election or not. I am not talking about poison pills.
There will be no deficit reduction plan I suspect. The view is that the recession is not over and unemployment has not been tamed and so the stimulus must continue for the next year. There will be some minor initiatives but nothing dramatic.
On the other hand there could be a major deficit reduction plan with many Liberal programs hitting the chopping block or being significantly scaled back. Liberals have never seen a program that needed to be cut.
So the Libs will say he is destroying the country and its social fabric. You know the usual bull shit and therefore the government must be defeated so the country can be saved.
It will be up to Iffy but he needs to tread carefully. You know Layton, going through what he is going through, does not want an election. So he will find a reason to support the government.
There is one thing that could happen and Harper could suggest that he needs a mandate to implement the second phase of his economic action plan and a mandate to reduce government expenditures and therefore goes to the GG to cause an election.
Wouldn't that be delicious! Iffy no plafform, no gabfest at the end of March and Layton unable to campaign. If makes may mouth water thinking about it. However, I am just speculating. Its pie in the sky. Harper wants to govern and after the prorogue fiasco he could think it is too high risk. However, I can dream can't I :-).
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:58:30 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:58
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
This Prime Minister has never met a risk he didn't like -- or take.
For my part, I always suspected Liberals and our non-partisans would not make it to Montreal. We will see if the PM rolls the dice.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:04:39 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:04
hollinm
Ronald.....it would foolish of the Liberals to under estimate this PM like they always do.
He is a tough opponent who has the strategic mind needed to govern in a minority parliament for four years; the longest in history.
I can just see Montreal (if it comes) ...a pile of Liberals and their like minded sycophants gabbing about stuff that has been chewed to death ad nauseum.
1)We need to build more basketball courts to help youth at risk.
2)We need to eliminate child poverty so lets give everybody in the country a liveable wage.
3)Lets eliminate the military and rely on the States to protect our sovereignty. After all we are only peace keepers.
4)Lets hand billions more to the aborigjnals to save them from themselves.
5)Lets implement a cap and trade system which will get rid of capitalism and put the socialists in charge
6)Lets put in a national daycare program regardless of its cost
7)Lets let all the criminals out of jail so that we can reduce the costs of the prison system. Besides they are just people who are misunderstood.
Lets never forget we have heard it all before.
Yep....can't wait to see the new Liberal policies coming out of Montreal. Yikes. God help us.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:42:09 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:42
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Too bad they don't give an Oscar for dramatic license. You're the winner hands down...but I have to admit that it did get a laugh out of me. (Nice one.)
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:45:33 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:45
hollinm
Ronald.....thanks. I thought it was pretty good myself.
However, watch the meeting. Some of these things are sure to appear in some form or fashion.
I have saved this comment so I can provide you with a follow up report after the gabfest.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:04:05 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:04
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
That's always been your trouble. You're much too considerate!
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:11:29 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:11
hollinm
Ronald.....hahaha.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:28:54 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:28
hollinm
Zachary....absolutely true...Iffy once again shoots off his mouth without knowing what he is talking about.
No PM is going to limit the powers of a future PM. To change the terms of prorogation would require a consitutional amendment and that is probably the advice that Iffy got.
Coupled with the fact that the real reason for prorogation was to re-organize the committee structure in the Senate. Any legislation on prorogation would never see the light of day once it hits the Senate.
Layton can say anything he wants. He has no credibility.
I say that about Layton because when it came to the coalition he was prepared to not insist on the withdrawal of the corporate tax cuts and criticizing the war in Afghanistan. So much for NDP principles when they thought they could get a taste of power.
Once again Iffy is blowing smoke. He continues to talk about the environment and instituting policies that would cripple the Canadian economy. This particularly after the global warming science is under extreme criticism with some suggesting it was a hoax.
Harper is going to do nothing to hurt the fragile Canadian economy and he will use it against Iffy in the next election particularly when Canadians are so concerned about their existing jobs.
Iffy and the opposition parties through their outrageous statements on prorogation have set themselves up nicely. Having called Harper undemocratic, a dictator, an affront to democracy, avoiding accountability etc will be seen to be playing politics if in fact they support the government's budget. Canadians will see all their comments as simply playing politics.
[updated Mon Feb 15 20:52:57 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 20:52
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Nice to meet the only and last person in Canada who happens to think that global warming science is a hoax. You don't know how I hope this Prime Minister catches what you've got! That should just about do it to turn Canada into the laughing stock of the world. That would be quite a Harper achievement...
[updated Mon Feb 15 21:21:15 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 21:21
Zachary Smith
RonaldODowd,
With all due respect, I would be pacing myself on comments on Global warming as the science begins to take on the look of being less than science and more about politics and judging on how the media is not reporting on the subject as the word starts to get out - there are more and more questioning.
The last blow up was what was happening with the glaciers in the Himalayans mounts and that that science was nothing more than a very creative scientist and that is but the last of a growing list.
[updated Mon Feb 15 21:41:27 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 21:41
RonaldODowd
Zachary,
It has been my experience that people looking for an excuse somehow always manage to find one. Others do just as well finding a pretext...
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:15:23 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:15
Zachary Smith
What you say is true, because I have found that regardless of which side of the issue that one stands on; the other side always appears to be finding a pretext or an excuse, but strangely my side never seems to make excuses.
Me, I prefer explanations to excuses, as I tend to learn more with an explanation than an excuse.
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:59:58 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:59
RonaldODowd
But sometimes Zachary, the explanation just doesn't wash!!
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:05:59 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:05
Zachary Smith
I believe that others and we have meet these conditions.
The accepting the explanation is often reliant on the other party having an open mind and not closed mind, It also dependent on have individuals who are prepared to respect the others point of view even as they disagree.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:12:19 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:12
hollinm
Ronald....you are behind the times. Global warming is being seriously debunked as we speak.
I am not in favour of destroying the economy under some guise that we are saving the world.
Sending money to foreign countries will do nothing to help our country reduce emissions and most certainly will not benefit our economy.
There are many people who do not believe in global warming. Its unfortunate that so many people have bought this whole thing hook, line and sinker.
Can we do things more environmental friendly? I believe we can.
However, the fact is Canada must face the reality that to make ourselves uncompetitive with the United States will be disaster for the Canadian economy.
You may have enough money but my kids need to work to support their families.
I can tell you in the United States there is no appetite for a cap and trade system. Obama will be lucky to be re-elected and the Democrats are going to be defeated in the fall big time.
Harper has been right all along and I know it drives the envirofacists nuts but when ordinary Canadians are given a choice of higher taxes or retaining their jobs we both know who they will re-elect.
One final question Ronald. Chretien endorsed Kyoto and forced it through Parliament under threat of an election. Why did he not implement Kyoto? Why did he have 5 environmental plans?
I'll answer it for you. He knew what achieving the goals of Koyoto would have done to the Canadian economy. So he ragged the puck and only after the Conservatives came to power did Liberals jump on the environment bandwagon.
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:45:45 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:45
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
I will let Jean Chrétien speak for himself. But I do find your last paragraph interesting.
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:51:54 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:51
Zachary Smith
RonaldODowd,
Is Hollinm last paragraph just Interesting factually correct? or just interesting.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:02:35 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:02
RonaldODowd
Exactly.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:07:06 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:07
Zachary Smith
RonaldODowd,
I do believe that I would have enjoyed a game of dodgeball with you.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:28:28 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:28
RonaldODowd
Zachary,
Sometimes in politics, what is left unsaid is immensely more interesting that what is put on the page...
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:33:56 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:33
hollinm
Ronald....you find my last paragraph interesting. Why is that? Because you know it is true. He had a majority government, had control of the caucus and a weak opposition. Nothing stopping him other than not wanting to destroy the Canadian economy.
There is no switch that can be turned on or off to stop our economy from one based on fossil fuels and a green one. Turmoil would ensue with the ordinary plebs (thats me) paying unprecedented higher taxes as companies try to recoup their increased costs or more worrisome move their businesses to more friendly countries.
Once you start down that slippery slope there would be no turning back.
I would mention one other thing. Quebec and their auto fuel emission standards? Right. The automotive guys met with officials in Quebec and told them the facts of life. Guess what happened they were exempted. Check it out. Its true. That's what happened in Europe and sure as hell it would happen in Canada.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:07:03 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:07
Zachary Smith
Hollinm,
Your last comment were very similar in concept to one of the comments that I had made earlier to RonaldODowd and that the Liberals were talking themselves into a box again and the more they spend time talking the less creditable their positions will become.
I will throw this one out for your considerations and it is that Harper is on his second trip to Haiti with the story line from the Globe and mail "Canada pledges to help house Haitian government" Globe and Mail.
While Ignatieff sits at the Olympics with this story line "Ignatieff wades into PMO v. banker fight" Jane Taber, Vancouver — From Monday's Globe and Mail.
I was wondering how the media story line would have been if Harper had not made any trips to Haiti and Ignatieff was the one on the road, with his boots being actually on the ground as are Harpers and not up at the Olympics with his boots on a rail in Vancouver.
You would have thought with all this free time that Ignatieff has, he might have made it to Haiti at least once to oversee the operations.
If you had not picked it up, I was rough and tumblee but had Mr. Nanos change it to my name recently.
[updated Mon Feb 15 22:01:43 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 22:01
rsharp 2 (suspended again)
Nice to meet a real person on this thread! There is no comparison between the power of the PM and the government to control the mainstream media headlines vs. the leader of the opposition. Especially when the media is so totally pro-Harper, they smell.
CTV and Global. The CanWest and Sun newspaper chains. Macleans. The Globe most of the time. Even the Star and the CBC ignore Mr. Ignatieff.
So, what do you expect?
[updated Mon Feb 15 22:08:51 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 22:08
Zachary Smith
I do believe that you did introduce yourself to me a Richard Sharp at one time and all I did was request that my alias be changed to my real name, in so far as I know there is no reason as to why you cannot do the same thing.
As to your other points
Lets us say that we will agree to disagree on the matter of media bias and where it lay and as to it smelling and that has little to do with the realities of the day and almost always depends on where you are standing politically and not the direction of the wind.
As to power, I would caution the Liberals from playing this card to many times, as they will be required to play by the same rules as the Conservatives, if /when they get to power.
Case in point, is the problems the Liberals are having in Ontario - trying to get their message out regarding the GST and HST as the rules they put in place regarding political advertisements.
They are unable to get the message that they wish to out, as the watchdog has refused all their planned advertisements, dog bits dogs.
[updated Mon Feb 15 22:30:18 -0500 2010]
15 Feb 22:30
hollinm
Richard....now you really are twisting in the wind.
The media supports Harper? You have got to be joking! Have you read the columns/editorials etc. in the last month and I would say since he came to power in 06.
Iffy is being ignored because he has nothing meaningful to say. He flip flops from one issue to the next and anything he does say lacks credibility. Even some in the media see it. However, he gets far more press than he deserves.
Why did the media not press Iffy on his pronouncement of a national daycare system regardless of the size of the deficit? Why are they not challenging him on his desire for a cap and trade system? Why are they not challenging him on his comments that we should not follow the U.S. and develop our own environmental policies? These are all irresponsible statements being made by someone who could conceivably become PM. Not a word from the lame street media.
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:02:08 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:02
rsharp 2 (suspended again)
hollinm, the mainstream media in Canada is right-wing by any definition. The right-wing OWNS them. As for Mr. Ignatieff ("Iffy" is so condescending), here is a remarkable list of things important to Canadians that the Libs are urging the Cons to do:
http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/17522_liberals-outline-priorities-for-the-next-session-of-parliament
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:27:11 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:27
Zachary Smith
Rsharp 2,
As you really do not have the moral high ground here, I am going to do this one time and one time only, please to do not say that others are condescending after you have posted the following,
"The poll also shows that Con supporters tend to be less educated."
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:42:23 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:42
hollinm
Zachary......I pointed this out to Richard as well. He was quite defensive but we all know what he means. Liberal smart....the rest of us stupid. Like a true Liberal he couched his comments saying he was just reporting what the poll said. Yeah right.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:00:22 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:00
Zachary Smith
Hollinm,
Talk about keeping an open mind and what else is there to say about the exchange, other than you and I and the others are being told that we must do as they say, not as they do.
Beginning of the story.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:17:04 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:17
rsharp 2 (suspended again)
Calling the leader of the opposition "Iffy" is condescending. End of story.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:03:42 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:03
hollinm
Richard....that's exactly what I say. End of story.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:22:39 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:22
hollinm
Richard....I read Taber's column. There is nothing that surprises me here. It is a bunch of left wing stuff that Harper will dismiss outright.
Its interesting that it looks like Iffy is abandoning his attempt to put forward legislation limiting prorogation because he has been advised probably that it will need a constitutional amendment. Like the EI issue he is asking for a meeting. It isn't going to happen.
Iffy (it is condescending and that is how I mean it) and the opposition can ask for anything they want. With control of the Senate committees Harper now has full control of the Commons and the Senate.
There will be no election this Spring unless Harper wants one and Iffy is going to have to bide his time. He is going to have to accept the governments political agenda or go to the polls. That's his choice. Do you think Layton is going to go to the polls? I don't think so.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:58:04 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:58
rsharp 2 (suspended again)
hollinm, if you actually read Mr. Ignatieff's letter, you would understand that the Libs have a whole slew of proposals to limit prorogations. In favour of democracy.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:06:52 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:06
hollinm
Richard.....the fact is he is asking for a special committee which is a change in his position. Before he was working with the NDP on new legislation.
He has been told that it will require a constitutional amendment. Besides any legislation would never get out of the reconfigured Senate.
Harper is not going to limit his or any future PM's ability to prorogue parliament. Only in the first year? Come on. Get serious. Funny it is only anti democratic when the Conservatives use the perogative but those Liberals they are on the side of the angels.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:13:35 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:13
Zachary Smith
Moreover, none of the suggestion(s) being made is constitutional - so why make them at all.
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:20:17 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:20
hollinm
Zachary.....I did not know you were previously rough and tumblee. Thanks for letting me know.
You are absolutely right though. If Harper had been enjoying the Olympics and Iffy had gone to Haiti the media would have been fawning all over him and of course the story line would have been Harper lounging at the Olympics while Iffy works.
However, the opposition parties and the media continue to underestimate the PM and his ability to recover from their attacks.
The media truly has become the lame street media and Taber is a joke. She is not a columnist/reporter. She is a gossip columnist. I don't have much respect for her as a reporter or as a host on Question Period.
[updated Tue Feb 16 09:55:12 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 09:55
Zachary Smith
One of the counter points that I have been bringing forward is the double standard that I see in the media and the process by which the Liberals say and do one thing before the cameras and then do far different things after the cameras move away.
I see this more and more as the Conservatives move up their numbers and there is usually a flurry of Conservative stories brought forward by the Toronto Star and Globe and Mail.
The prorogation "issue" is but the most recent attack on the Conservatives and did you know that the total time that this prorogation consists of three weeks or fifteen days and that prorogation has occurred 105 times previously without issue and I will leave out Rae and Chrétien as you covered them off.
One standard for the Conservatives and another for the Liberals and as we move forward on this issue just how will the Liberals sell the idea that prorogation is evil in the fist year after an election and that it is Liberal good after 12 months.
[updated Tue Feb 16 10:54:31 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 10:54
hollinm
Zachary....I fully agree with you.
Couple of other points. Iffy stands up and promotes an uncosted daycare program regardless of the size of the deficit and no one in the media challenges him.
He is now coming out and promoting a cap and trade system and not wait for the U.S. No one challenges him on what the costs to the Canadian economy would be and how that would impact our competitive position with the U.S.our major trading partner.
I believe the media are frustrated with the Libs and instincively know they are going to lose the next election. So the lame street media have decided the best they can do is limit the Conservatives to another minority. That would continue the political chaos in the country, allow the Libs more time to get another leader and of course may get rid of Harper who they cannot tolerate.
This was the whole point of the prorogue issue. They thought they had Harper over a barrel on the Afghan issue and Harper thwarted it with prorogation. That was not acceptable to the lame street media.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:19:35 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:19
Zachary Smith
Hollinm here is a beauty, From the Toronto Star - Published On Tue Feb 16 2010
Travers: Is this a mission of mercy or political diversion?
"Stephen Harper's Haiti visit is premature at best and a political diversion at worst."
What else is there to say.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:24:30 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:24
hollinm
Zachary.......There is no left leaning columnist worse than Travers.
Harper could discover a cure for cancer and Travers would say what happened to MS.
He and I have had a number of go arounds through emails and he is one of the most left leaning there is in Canada.
He always points out the negative columns he writes about the Liberals. as a defence. His columns about the Liberals are exhortations to do better and beat the Conservatives.
To suggest the PM could care less about Haiti is disgusting and really maligns the PM as a human being versus a politician.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:48:52 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:48
Zachary Smith
Hollinm, this piece is so Pro Conservative that I felt I need to share it with you and it just gets better after this.
From the Globe and Mail, David Eaves Special to The Globe and Mail
Published on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2010 11:10AM EST
"Over the past few months a new pattern in Ottawa’s relations with internationally focused NGOs has begun to emerge."
"Through bullying, funding decisions, appointments and other means, the government is attempting to compel Canadian organizations that engage in international issues to parrot its opinions"
[updated Tue Feb 16 12:29:12 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 12:29
hollinm
Zachary..... Interesting........................
The NGOs can make their own rules etc when they do not accept money from the government of the day. Then, they can be truly independent.
Until that happens that government has the right to ensure that NGOs accepting government largesse support the policies of the government.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:26:57 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:26
Zachary Smith
I have an even more interesting post that I just made, one that I am sure that you will get a good deal mileage out of.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:35:39 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:35
Zachary Smith
Other, than I hope you are enjoying the Olympics Michael,
Love Jim.
[updated Tue Feb 16 11:26:33 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 11:26
RonaldODowd
Canadian Press-Harris/Decima.
CPC: 32%
LPC: 30%
NDP: 16%
GP: 10%
BQ: 41% in Quebec.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:26:46 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:26
7 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Zachary Smith
RonaldoDowd, Hollinm
I had written earlier about there being two sides to the coin and that sometimes when the coin is flipped it lands on its edge and that usually means interesting times and this is interesting and one has to wonder why it is not playing on the news cycle 24/7 see number 2.
Globe and mail; Published on Monday, Feb. 15, 2010 6:50PM EST Last updated on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2010 3:20AM EST, Margaret Wente.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/the-science-isnt-settled-now-what/article1469050/
1) Even Phil Jones, the man at the centre of Climategate, seems to take the third position.
2) But in a weekend BBC interview, he dropped a bombshell. He acknowledged there's been no statistically significant warming since 1995.
3) Hello? When other people say that, they're called deniers.
4) He also said (contrary to everything we've been told) that the debate is not over.
5) “I don't believe the vast majority of climate scientists think this. This is not my view.
6) There is still much that needs to be undertaken to reduce uncertainties, not just for the future, but for the [distant] past as well.”
7) So much for the science being settled. Now what?
Now what? well that is a good question for other side now.
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:29:20 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:29
No replies yet. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Zachary Smith
Ekos, Nanos, Harris Decima, Angus Reid are showing one trend and one other polling Company is showing another - has the question been answered.
http://www.visioncritical.com/2010/02/conservatives-keep-four-point-lead-over-liberals-at-the-Voting Intention
Across the country, 34 per cent of decided voters (+1 since late January) would cast a ballot for the Conservative candidate in their riding if a new federal election took place today.
The Liberal Party is second with 30 per cent (+1), four points ahead of the proportion of the vote that the party received in the October 2008 federal election.
The New Democratic Party (NDP) is third with 18 per cent (-1), followed by the Bloc Québécois with nine per cent (-1), and the Green Party with eight per cent (+1).
Regional Breakdowns
The Tories remain the most popular party in Alberta (62%) and Manitoba and Saskatchewan (48%).
In British Columbia, the governing party is holding on to the top spot (36%), with the NDP (30%) maintaining its edge over the Liberals (26%).
In Ontario, a tight race continues. The Tories (37%) are barely ahead of the Grits (35%), followed by the NDP with 17 per cent and the Greens at 11 per cent.
In Quebec, the Bloc is first with 35 per cent (-7), followed by the Liberals with 28 per cent (+2), the NDP with 14 per cent (=), and the Conservatives also with 14 per cent (+3).
start-of-olympic-break/
[updated Tue Feb 16 14:48:18 -0500 2010]
16 Feb 14:48
No replies yet. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Zachary Smith
In previous posts, I had written in response to others on the board that their contention that the SCoC had ruled that the Conservatives were violating Khadr civil and human rights was not factually correct.
In addition, that the SCoC had ruled that the previous Liberal Governments were responsible for the violation of Khadr civil and human rights.(see points 3, 5, 6 and 7)
As the court had ruled that if the evidence from those torture sessions were used against Khadr, it would be seen by the court that the Conservative Government would be seen to be violating Khadr rights as well.
It would now appear that the Conservative Government is now addressing that issue and seeking assurances from the Americans that the evidence assembled under the Liberal watch will not be used against Khadr in a court of law.
r
CBC - http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/16/nicholson-khadr016.html
1) Ottawa wants assurances that the United States will not use evidence obtained by Canadian officials in their interviews with accused terrorist Omar Khadr in any future prosecution against him.
2) The official request was made in a diplomatic note to the U.S. government Tuesday, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said in a statement.
3) It refers to interviews that Canadian agents and officials conducted with Khadr in 2003 and 2004 in Guantanamo Bay, knowing he had been repeatedly deprived of sleep, and passed the information on to U.S. officials.
4) The statement is the federal government's first response to a Jan. 29 Supreme Court of Canada ruling on Khadr's repatriation to Canada.
5) The top court agreed Canadian officials violated Khadr's human rights in their participation in his U.S. detention and that he continues to be threatened by the effect of those violations.
Globe and Mail - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-asks-us-to-omit-evidence-in-khadr-case/article1470621/
6) The evidence that is the subject of the letter was gleaned in interrogations with Mr. Khadr in 2003 and 2004 that the court deemed illegal, and that could be used against him in U.S. proceedings.
7) In its 9-0 ruling, the court also denounced the government's participation in the interrogation and U.S. officials' use of sleep deprivation to weaken the prisoner, who was 15 at the time.
[updated Wed Feb 17 09:33:52 -0500 2010]
17 Feb 09:33
1 reply so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
Zachary Smith
So here, we find yet another example of how the Liberals balanced the budget, ran a surplus, and paid down the debt.
Part One -Move $52.0 Billion dollars from the fund that the employed paid into support themselves if they became unemployed into other programs so that the Liberals would not have to pay out the money collected.
Part Two - Move $30.0 Billion dollars from the fund that the employee paid into for their pension to support themselves when they retired and watch the Liberals move the money into other programs so that the Liberals would not have to pay out the money collected.
The total is now at $82.0 just how much money did they redirect.
National Post - Day, federal unions to meet over pension cuts - Kathryn May, Canwest News Service Published: Wednesday, February 17, 2010
1) The unions also learned this week they are going back to court over the $30-billion surplus in the federal pension fund that the Liberals used in 1999 to help offset the deficit.
2) The unions lost their original lawsuit in a bid to force the government to return the $30-billion surplus to the plan. It won leave to appeal that decision and the appeal will be heard in Toronto on April 19-21.
[updated Wed Feb 17 11:02:08 -0500 2010]
17 Feb 11:02
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sprint20092010 (Suspended)
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[updated Sun Sep 26 22:55:57 -0400 2010]
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sprint20092010 (Suspended)
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[updated Sun Sep 26 22:59:41 -0400 2010]
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