Our latest Nanos poll shows that support for the Conservatives continues to increase while Liberal support is in decline. With the Tories holding a ten point advantage over the Liberals this represents the widest gap between the two parties since the last federal election.
Of note, since last months polling, the Liberal Party’s support in Quebec has noticeably decreased - from 32.5% in early September to 24.6%.
The number of undecided voters, nationally, has dropped in the past month from 24.6% in early September, down to 17.5%, likely owing to the subdued election buzz.
To chat about this poll join the national political online chat at Nik on the Numbers. The detailed tables and methodology are posted on our website. You can also register to receive automatic polling updates.
Methodology
Nanos conducted a random telephone survey of 1,005 Canadians, 18 years of age and older, between October 10th and October 18th. A survey of 1,005 Canadians is accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20, for 829 committed voters, it is accurate to within 3.4 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20. Margins may be larger for smaller samples.
Ballot Question: For those parties you would consider voting for federally, could you please rank your top two current local preferences? (Committed voters only - First Preference)
The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the last Nanos National Omnibus survey completed between August 28th and September 2nd, 2009.
National (n=829)
Conservative 39.8% (+2.3)
Liberal 30.0% (-3.4)
NDP 16.6% (+1.8)
BQ 8.9% (-0.8)
Green 4.6% (NC)
Undecided 17.5% (-7.1)
What do you think?
Cheers,
NJN
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Most Read Comments
Highest Rated Comments
This poll (being the only other poll out this week) really highlights how the di... more
Lex Llewdor (British Columbia) 22 Oct 18:28
I believe this is as much of a poll on "what is the alternative?" as it is a pol... more
Tom Good (British Columbia) 22 Oct 19:56
I have to agree completely Nick! What amazes me about Harper is that despite nee... more
psiclone (British Columbia) 22 Oct 18:08
Brusmit, Like you, I don't deny PAST facts! (I'm not saying your version of sam... more
RonaldODowd (Ontario) 30 Oct 06:49
Lex: Well, Zachardelli is gone and the current RCMP head is an civilian appoint... more
Tom Good (British Columbia) 23 Oct 22:24
I'll say its a disgrace. It is really bad for Harper and it shows, because at t... more
GloriaBC (British Columbia) 01 Nov 20:09
Comments
psiclone
I have to agree completely Nick! What amazes me about Harper is that despite needing a personality transplant he continues to lead from day one. I mean really folks think back and be honest with yourselves and I think you would have to agree with me. 2006 he sort of snuck into the House with the slimmest of minorities and was immediately wriiten off completely the toe tags were signed and ready and a life span of 6 months tops given to him. Well now what do we see but going on 4 years later a seasoned and truly brilliant political fighter who has outfoxed, outmanouvered and outplayed all comers so far having turned into an expert at playing whackamole with all the other oppostion leaders including a new one after having retired a previous from the ring .. truly impressive and I have no doubt that he will be remaining in the PM's seat for quite some time - especially after Iggy the gift that keeps on giving!
[updated Thu Oct 22 18:08:51 -0400 2009]
22 Oct 18:08
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Lex Llewdor
This poll (being the only other poll out this week) really highlights how the different methodologies of EKOS and Nanos produce different numbers for the Green Party.
This is also the best poll result for the Liberals in over a month. No other poll since September 13 has had them at 30 or higher. The four polls completed within a week of this one show LPC support at 28, 25.5, 27, and 27.1.
[updated Thu Oct 22 18:28:28 -0400 2009]
22 Oct 18:28
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Tom Good
I believe this is as much of a poll on "what is the alternative?" as it is a poll on the growing strength of the Harperites. To his credit, Harper has grown, continues to be an outstanding tactician to the envy of all, while the Liberals should possibly be promoted to the Senate with comfortable armchairs for them to reflect on the past as they pass into history. Somebody has to shake the Liberal tree and get the atrophied status quo dinosaurs to drop out and to be replaced by a few futureists. The Liberals have to reinvent themselves but that appears ellusive with the old guard still in power in the back rooms.
To me, everything that is "Conservative" has Harper at the helm running the show with no ifs or buts. Everything that is Liberal is the backroom policy boys running the show and running Ignatieff, for example, the Coderre challenge to Ignatieff in Quebec and Liberal Senators challenging Ignatieff over the law and order bill. If Ignatieff has some thoughts about the governance of Canada, and I am sure he has, he is not free to express them simply because he is not running the Liberal machine. Barring some terrible stumbles in the Conservative camp, I would suggest that the Liberal Party ----not Ignatieff, has lost the next election before it is called. The Liberals have failed to differentiate themselves and their policies for Canada from the Conservatives and their policies for Canada----a fatal flaw..
[updated Thu Oct 22 19:56:56 -0400 2009]
22 Oct 19:56
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Bernie
The Conservatives seemed to be in majority territory now. A few weeks of a good selling program would put them over the top
I was surprised with Quebec. I would have thought that there was no redemption for Harper there. I expected to numbers to go even lower. Years ago trends seem longer and sustained . Now they are volatile and can change rapidly, even on a weekend before an election. Certainly they could change radically by Spring time.
I don't understand Canadians tolerating such bad government for so long. I want better for my country and to me it says most voters are not that badly off and so don't care about those other issues that define a nation; Issues that present a beacon for the rest of the world. A light that guides us to a better future for those who come after us.
[updated Sat Oct 24 08:37:52 -0400 2009]
24 Oct 08:37
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RonaldODowd
All Is "Right" In The World!
I'm all for genuine peace, love and harmony. I always thought that making up is, just like the song says, hard to do...but apparently Quebec's Beauce region seems to be a glaring exception to the rule.
Witness this unbelievable performance from our Prime Minister as reported in The Gazette :
"Maxime is a great friend and great member of my team," Harper told reporters.
Harper was in St. Georges to announce Ottawa would contribute $60.6 million to a $142.6-million fund for upgrades at Quebec post-secondary institutions. The province is putting up $82 million.
"We all know that Max made a mistake ... which he owned up to," Harper said. "He is extremely valued by myself and all his colleagues in Ottawa and it's great to have him on the team."
Not ain't that just one for the history books! Imagine how the PM must cherish yours truly -- continuing down that same path of logic. Please...even in Beauce, they don't come close to being that gullible.
I like Max. I always have. But that guy can forget his future leadership ambitions. That appearance yesterday struck me as so cheezy it's a wonder either man managed to keep a straight face through that finely orchestrated performance.
But alas, they did manage to drop the ball somewhat. Here what I would have used as the closer -- a vigorous rendition by the audience of the following:
GETTING TO KNOW YOU (Oscar Hammerstein)
Anna:
It's a very ancient saying,
But a true and honest thought,
That if you become a teacher,
By your pupils you'll be taught.
As a teacher I've been learning
(You'll forgive me if I boast)
And I've now become an expert,
On the subject I like most.
[Spoken]
Getting to know you.
[Children Giggle]
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Getting to know you, putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
My cup of tea.
[Children Giggle]
All [Except children]:
Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.
Getting to know you, putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
Anna:
My cup of tea.
All (including children):
Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy.
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say
Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day by day.
Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy.
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say
Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day by day.
The perfect finale to badly contrived political theatre...
[updated Sat Oct 24 12:46:59 -0400 2009]
24 Oct 12:46
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RonaldODowd
Lady Macbeth for President...
The runoff is coming in Kabul and across the country in two weeks. Afghan President Hamid Karzai strikes me as a man with few electoral worries. More of the same down the road, I regret to report. He has so many colourful family members.
There's talk of a national unity government under his good auspices. Yawn.
I'm for thinking out of the box: Lady Macbeth for President! Let her political slogan ring across the land -
"Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then
'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and
afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our
pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to
have had so much blood in him?"
Pledges of political reform as precious blood continues to flow for naught. But then there's the track record. Nothing quite like highly inconvenient facts. The psychological mindset can't help but continue along with the political paralysis.
Leave it to Lady Macbeth. July 2011 can't come soon enough for me. Bring our people home.
[updated Sat Oct 24 13:50:09 -0400 2009]
24 Oct 13:50
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RonaldODowd
So Close And Yet Quite Fortunately, So Far!
The political gods seem to be with us - smile Michael. Try as he might, this Prime Minister can't find the magic formula to sustain momentum toward a projected Conservative majority government. All is right in the world.
I want to recommend an excellent and captivating site which one poster here was kind enough to share with us.
Please take a look at: http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com/
Éric does some invaluable work here and we should be extremely grateful to him for his efforts.
Now, here's what strikes me about his numbers. His latest seat projection is 137 Conservative, 98 Liberal, 49 Bloc Québécois and 24 New Democrat. That's a long way from Ekos.
I have a sense that the PM is not about to follow the advice of Jim Travers in The Star to consider going now. Travers argues that waiting does not auger well for this government and I must say that I don't disagree with that statement.
I think we have Stephen Harper nicely boxed in. He won't go now if his political life depended on it. Ditto for Jack. They say that time waits for no man but I think its shown itself willing to allow Michael to catch up!
I agree with those who argue that coasting is not necessarily good for a government's health. What a predicament. Damned if you go now, having to come back with another preordained minority trifecta followed by a new party leader and prime minister; or worse yet, standing pat and generating about as much further political momentum as a car in neutral. Meanwhile, the stone-cutting prime minister continues to smile from the beyond as his party's successor makes systematic and steady progress with the chisel.
Labour on Michael, patience is often its own reward. Particularly, persevering patience. And that my friends, describes Michael to a Tee!
[updated Sat Oct 24 21:36:07 -0400 2009]
24 Oct 21:36
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syl (suspended)
Today is the 16th anniversary of the full destruction of the old PC party. The newest form,reformatory or PC lite is next on the list.
[updated Sun Oct 25 14:51:30 -0400 2009]
25 Oct 14:51
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NL_Expatriate
You of all people Nik the numbers NANOS should know that it doesn't matter which party is in power or opp for that matter, they are all nothing but PROXY parties for the ON/QU majority population 181/308 seats!
We have become a Tyranny of the majority population under the guise of democracy.
[updated Sun Oct 25 20:35:08 -0400 2009]
25 Oct 20:35
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Anti (suspended)
Crime Bill's Cost Investigation by Kevin Page reported at Globe and Mail:
I hope the conservaties have enough funding for a new jail in the far far north for the likes of Jean Chretien and other Liberals involved in the Sponsorship Scandal that is long overdue.
why can the Liberals never pick the correct leader, many say that if it came to an Election today. Ignatieff would do worse than Dion!
What is wrong with the Liberals you tell me. Multiculturalism is a scam brought in by Trudeau and Liberals in world of unreality
[updated Mon Oct 26 15:11:09 -0400 2009]
26 Oct 15:11
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RonaldODowd
Please, Allow Me!
Due to unseasonably warm weather which has generated considerable unforeseen heat, perhaps I can help by unloading a troublesome bridge over the Saint Lawrence river.
Come on gang. Just chill out and let me take the reins from here. Have a few drinks while celebrating the miracle that is a common cause.
Everything's bound to come out right in the end. Just wait and see.
[updated Mon Oct 26 22:58:54 -0400 2009]
26 Oct 22:58
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RonaldODowd
Fun With A Wildrose!
This Prime Minister doesn't want to talk about it -- in fact, the word has gone out to keep it shut. No wonder. Wildrose seems to be another successful example of a great western phenomenon: incubator politics.
In Alberta, in many quarters, might makes right. All eyes are on the upcoming leadership review vote on November 7th. If Ed Stelmach turns out to be Joe Clark, the PCs are in serious trouble. My hunch is that the Premier will manage to stick his finger in and secure the dike -- for now.
Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith is on her way. Where it stops nobody knows. The road to power may not be as long as some people think. Time will tell.
Far be it for me to give Albertans advice on provincial politics. That's their business. But please allow me a moment of delicious mischief!
Come on Wildrose. Think about going NATIONAL! Almost four years and counting with right-of-center Conservatives still searching in the wilderness for their beacon prime minister. The present incumbent hasn't kept the fiscal faith. The bible of reform is nowhere to be found in Harper's Ottawa...
What I wouldn't give to help things along. Splitting the right, returning to the status quo ante, works for me. Hell, I wouldn't even have any objections if Monte took on a national Wildrose leadership (wink, wink).
So come on oil patch. Make political history and by all means go national. Stephen Harper is a big boy. He can handle a few more sleepless nights.
[updated Tue Oct 27 11:12:41 -0400 2009]
27 Oct 11:12
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RonaldODowd
Put A Spade In Their Hands...And They KEEP Digging For The Next Bonehead Play.
Perhaps some time off would help because this one won't be pretty. Witness the latest developments as reported in The Star:
OTTAWA–The Stephen Harper government is refusing to pay the legal bills of a federal official whose warnings of possible torture in Afghan jails sparked a political storm, The Canadian Press has learned.
The Foreign Affairs Department had given preliminary approval last month to Richard Colvin's request to use an independent lawyer.
But it now says it won't pay the first set of bills until Colvin's lawyer, Calgary-based Lori Bokenfohr, itemizes for the Justice Department who she has been in contact with – a requirement that could be a breach of lawyers' ethical rules.
It's the latest development in an escalating dispute involving the envoy-turned-intelligence officer, who has been blocked by federal lawyers from telling a public inquiry what military police knew – or didn't know – about the possible abuse of prisoners by Afghan authorities.
Colvin opted last summer not to rely on someone from the Justice Department's stable of lawyers and, under federal guidelines, Ottawa is obliged to cover the cost.
[updated Tue Oct 27 11:29:43 -0400 2009]
27 Oct 11:29
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RonaldODowd
Michael,
I don't want to denigrate anyone but thank you for doing what had to be done.
Welcome aboard Peter! We look forward to the turnaround.
I suspect that my words speak for many others.
[updated Tue Oct 27 23:13:33 -0400 2009]
27 Oct 23:13
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Anti (suspended)
Harper by pass China, just a waste of time, until the Thugs in Beijing change their attitude, It has been confirmed that China bribed,secret deals to get Beijing Olympics away from Toronto, Intergrated Security Force must have 50 officers assigned to YVR to make sure Chinese Nationals linked to this scandal are not let into Canada from Nov 1,2009 to Mar 1,2010, where are these Security people when you need them. We even have to tell them what to do, can you not figure this out on your own. No one to be let in for Olympic Games from China. Where is SUCCESS when you need, all talk and no action from this Chinese group. Harper go straight to India. Another note: Peter Danolo will destroy the Liberals for good, he escaped justice from the APEC Inquiry he is not going to help Liberals. Guaranteed Majority for Conservatives. Liberals have had to dud PM before and now this one.
[updated Wed Oct 28 13:48:16 -0400 2009]
28 Oct 13:48
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Lex Llewdor
And now we see why the Liberals have failed to make up any ground in the polls.
The press release for the newest Angus Reid poll (which continues to show a 14 point lead for the CPC) contains this nugget:
"Two-in-five Canadians (44%) either completely or moderately trust Harper to do the right thing to help the economy recover, while just one-in-four (25%) feel the same way about Ignatieff."
The economy has been the number one issue for a while now, and Canadians apparently don't trust Ignatieff to handle it well.
[updated Wed Oct 28 16:57:47 -0400 2009]
28 Oct 16:57
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brusmit (Suspended)
From the CBC
Estimated 2.8 million Canadians live abroad, : Thursday, October 29, 2009
Well with 2.8 million "Canadians", living abroad it would explain where all those absent Canadians are on voting day and it would be interesting to see what the number of Canadians living abroad in 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2008...
Elections Canada, Canada`s population - 31,612,897
Electors on the lists - 23,677,639 or 74.9%
Total ballots cast - 13,929,093 or 58.8%
Electors on the list minus the 2,800,000 (living abroad) x 74.9% equals 20,972,000 Electors on the list living in Canada.
Total ballots cast 13,930,000 / 20,972,000 (restated Electors) equals 66.4%
If all those "Canadians, were in Canada and voted, based on the percentages in the last General election, the turnout could have been 66.4%.
One interesting observation in the article was a number of trends indentified.
1) The report found that immigrants from wealthy countries tend to have high exit rates following a brief stay, whereas people from less wealthy countries or countries with political stress tend to leave after five or more years of residency in Canada.
2) Foreign-born Canadian emigrants from Taiwan had the highest rate of return to their country of origin, at 30 per cent, followed by emigrants from Hong Kong at 24 per cent.
3) The study noted that a time of political tensions in those regions was followed by a period of a "quiescence" that may have contributed to the higher exit rate.
The question that can be asked, are these trends having an impact on the number of "lost" votes that the Liberals have lost in the recent elections and is this part of their tradional base that they once had
[updated Thu Oct 29 12:18:00 -0400 2009]
29 Oct 12:18
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RonaldODowd
Something To Bear In Mind.
Richard:
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this son of York;
And all the clouds that low'r'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Richard The Third Act 1, scene 1, 1–4
It's not enough to win a crucial battle. Merely achieving one's objective is never sufficient...what good comes from an eventual hollow victory which is won without a sound foundation. In the final analysis, you have to stand for something -- you have to build on the impressive accomplishments of those that came before you.
In modern times, the fatal flaw of lack of direction was perhaps best epitomized by U.S. President George H. W. Bush who was found wanting because he failed to provide voters with "the vision thing"...
Quite clearly, there is a hunger in the land for knowledge. People want to know where one is headed and why they should honour someone with their support and more importantly, their trust.
So far, no one has succeeded in shining the road up ahead with a beacon. Now would seem to be the time to chart that course.
[updated Sat Oct 31 22:16:47 -0400 2009]
31 Oct 22:16
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RonaldODowd
Quebec Votes Today In Municipal Elections.
You know me. I like to take a stab at things -- to go with my gut feeling and see how it turns out!
So here it goes: my prediction is that Richard Bergeron will be elected Mayor of Montreal. The convention wisdom is that the group of three will come in all bunched up together. Au contraire, I'm suggesting that Bergeron will win by a comfortable margin with outgoing mayor Gérald Tremblay placing second and former PQ MNA Louise Harel not far behind Tremblay.
It's either steak or eggs tonight.
[updated Sun Nov 01 11:23:38 -0500 2009]
01 Nov 11:23
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OustHarpo
Harper was too busy making attack ads and advertising the Conservative party to care about Canadians health. He missed the recession and now this. He is not paying attention because he is too focused on destroying his competition. It may work with his opponents, but it is a massive failure in running the country.
This is a national disgrace and a disaster. The Harper apologists are out trying to plug the dike by blaming the provinces and using the old "pay no attention to the man behind thae curtain" and move on.
Sorry, Harper has wasted our time and tax dollars elevating himself rather than promoting their H1N1 so-called plan.
[updated Sun Nov 01 19:46:49 -0500 2009]
01 Nov 19:46
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syl (suspended)
Harper in his arrogance has tried to slip in another dirty deal while he is out of Ottawa:
http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2009/11/hey-remember-that-weird-globe-story-about-pmo-and-navigator-limited.html#socialcomments
The one that claimed PMO was "cutting ties" to the company because its practices were allegedly the target of an investigation by the lobbying commissioner? The one that nobody -- least of all the commissioner, who is legally forbidden from commenting on any investigation, even one that doesn't exist -- could figure out whether or not it was true, and to which Navigator eventually issued a categorical, if carefully worded denial?
Turns out there may have been another good reason for the ostensible cooling off: Meet PMO's new deputy director of government communication, Dan Robertson, who was, until very very recently, a member of the team at Navigator Limited. I mean, recently enough that he's still listed on the Navigator webpage, although I suspect the link to his bio may go dead soon after this post goes up. UPDATE: It did -- in under two hours, no less. You can still read the Google cache here, or the extended version, courtesy of LinkedIn, here.
[updated Mon Nov 02 17:37:04 -0500 2009]
02 Nov 17:37
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syl (suspended)
I wonder how these facts will paly out in the polls as the info seeps into peoples minds:
http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/greg_weston/2009/11/01/11593846-sun.html
Canada will be back in the black, Flaherty promised, without reducing employment insurance benefits or funding to the provinces for health care, social services or regional equalization.
Instead, the author of federal budgets lucky to get the page numbering right would have us believe that when the recession ends, the deficit will too.
Or not. A closer look at what is actually driving the government $55 billion into the red this year shows much of the shortfall is the result of permanent Conservative tax measures and other factors that won't simply vanish in an economic recovery. Consider:
* The first $6 billion of this year's red-ink extravaganza actually came from the Harper government's cutting taxes and over-spending last year even before the economic crash. It will still be there next year.
* Revenue from personal income taxes, the government's largest source of cash, is expected to drop by almost $9 billion this year. A large part of that lost loot is the result of personal tax cuts the Conservatives have promised not to touch, no matter what happens to the economy.
* Corporate taxes are also on track to nosedive $6 billion this year, much of it from various business incentives that don't depend on the economy.
* The increased costs of Employment Insurance program payouts are expected to reach $6 billion this year. Part of that is due to the soaring numbers of Canadians out of work since the recession hit, but $2.7 billion is from enhanced benefits and other enrichments to the program that will be politically difficult to cancel even in a recovery.
* The government estimates federal payments to other levels of government will rise more than $4 billion this year for health care, social programs, regional equalization and support for cities, all of which the Conservatives have promised not to cut in future.
* Despite the recession, the public service grew by 4.1% last year, and even more the year before. It helps to explain part of why government operating expenses are up a whopping $3.3 billion this year. Good luck cutting the bureaucracy down the road, no matter what happens to the economy.
* The cost of Old Age Security will rise by about $2 billion this year -- and each year for many more years to come -- as Boomers turn seniors.
RECORD DEFICITS
All of which adds up to record-setting deficits that are likely to be anything but temporary, and a soaring debt that will cost Canadians billions more in annual interest charges.
The finance department estimates the accumulation of annual deficits will drive last year's debt of $463 billion to $628 billion by 2014, an increase of about 35%.
At the end of that same period, the government predicts annual interest charges will have increased from about $31 billion to $42 billion, another $11 billion the treasury will have to borrow or find in budget cuts.
Unfortunately for taxpayers, even those dismal projections don't take into account a likely return to more traditional interest rates that would dramatically drive up the costs of servicing a mushrooming national debt -- over $5 billion more for every percentage point rise in interest rates.
Our kids will be thrilled.
[updated Mon Nov 02 20:21:21 -0500 2009]
02 Nov 20:21
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syl (suspended)
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/720027--harper-congratulates-karzai-on-controversial-election-win
One illegitimate leader congratulates another similar leader.
[updated Mon Nov 02 22:35:59 -0500 2009]
02 Nov 22:35
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brusmit (Suspended)
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"One illegitimate leader congratulates another similar leader. "
Interesting concept that you have brought forward for disscussion, perchance you have some research to support your contention that the current Conservative Government was elected in a illegal manner.
I would be most interested to see what little preversions of the truth that you will be presenting as "proof" of your statement.
[updated Tue Nov 03 08:07:44 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 08:07
RonaldODowd
Syl,
This Prime Minister needs to have his head examined for congratulating Karzai. That government in Kabul is a complete farce: corrupt, ineffectual, irresponsible and utterly contemptible of the democratic process.
The election was a sham and his installation is beyond pathetic. Time for all Canadians to get out of there by 2011. Not one more drop of blood should be shed to keep that man in office.
Only previously blinded fools would make any effort to keep Keystone Kops in power...
I think the PM has telegraphed his future modified position pretty well, don't you?
[updated Tue Nov 03 09:36:36 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 09:36
hollinm
Ronald......lets not get carried away here. Don't believe the spin in the media.
Of course the PM called him but we have no idea what was said. Karzai has been declared the President of Afghanistan and whether we like the process or not we have to continue to have some form of relationship with him to continue our work.
We are getting out in 2011 and that means we will begin dismantling etc in mid 2010.
However, I am not sure what we will be doing after 2011. It does not make sense that we would leave our aid workers, diplomats etc. etc. exposed to violence after the we do pullout the majority of troops. Remember the bulk of our international aid is going to Afghanistan. That is going to be a real issue for the government in the future.
It has nothing to do with keeping Karzai in office. It has to do with helping the people of Afghanistan. Remember this is a tribal nation who has not known peace ever. Things don't happen over night.
I want to make my position perfectly clear. I do not like war and violence of any type. However, the Liberal government committed our troops to Afghanistan particularly Kandahar province and so once committed we have to hold up our obligations to the world community.
[updated Tue Nov 03 10:51:02 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 10:51
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
I will be equally clear - I want all civilians out, CIDA included in 2011. Time to go. That price is no longer worth paying (sustainable). As sure as I'm breathing, Afghanistan is the next quagmire. Time to cut our losses and depart.
Remember, Hollinm, Obama is the new Johnson -- being forced by circumstances to go down the same unfortunate road. I'll bet you dollars to donoughts that it'll cost him a second term in the next presidential election.
Afghanistan has replaced Bette Davis: box office poison...radioactive on a good day.
[updated Tue Nov 03 10:59:17 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 10:59
hollinm
Ronald.......I suspect there will be a vigorous debate in the House as to what future role we should play in Afghanistan, if anything.
Afganistan will not be the only reason Obama will turn into a one term president. He is destroying the American economy and racking up unprecedented deficits and debt. Wait till healthcare and cap and trade are put in place. Costs will be greater than anticipated and like George W. Bush the Americans will want to see the back of Obama as quickly as they can.
The elections in 2010 for the Congress will be a real bell weather as to whether the Amercians want to bring some control back to the government. It is lopsided now and there is no real opposition.
By the way China holds the largest amount of U.S. debt. We need to watch them carefully. If they refuse to renew their debt or buy anymore the house of cards will begin to fall.
[updated Tue Nov 03 12:15:03 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 12:15
Lex Llewdor
Of course, China won't do that.
What they'll probabl do is attach onerous conditions to their debt, conditions the Americans will have no choice but to meet.
Oddly, this is exactly what the US did to Britain after WW2, and now the US is happily walking into the same trap.
[updated Tue Nov 03 12:53:57 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 12:53
hollinm
Lex.....the Chinese have already asked to settle some exports (forget which) demoninated in other than U.S. dollars.
If the Chinese get real nervous and refuse to renew or buy anymore U.S. debt that will be a real problem for the Obamassiah.
The pressure will come if healthcare is passed as well as cap and trade and the economy does not rebound sufficiently.
[updated Tue Nov 03 22:35:58 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 22:35
Lex Llewdor
Passing Obamacare and cap-n-trade virtually guarantees the economy won't rebound sufficiently.
The US might need Pinochet-style shock therapy by the time they get someone with a decent grasp of economics running the show again.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:07:46 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:07
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Again, agreed. We are rather sympatico today. Here's hoping for more of the same via another channel!
[updated Tue Nov 03 13:51:08 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 13:51
syl (suspended)
Mervin, is this like the other "truths" Harper has told us? No taxing of income trusts!!
We have enough vaccine ready!!
There is no recession
There will be no deficit.
There will be no tax increases to pay for the new deficit.
Troops out in 2011...................ha ha ha
[updated Tue Nov 03 12:39:24 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 12:39
Lex Llewdor
Have you seen a tax increase?
He certainly lied about the Income Trusts. I'm pretty upset about that.
And promising no deficit was dumb.
We do have enough vaccine, given our rollout plan (at least, we did until Glaxo screwed up on their end).
[updated Tue Nov 03 12:55:31 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 12:55
hollinm
Lex......once again I don't think Harper got up one morning and said I think I will piss off investors today by implementing a tax on income trusts. Remember the tax has not been implemented yet. There was a 4 year phase in period. Yes people lost money if they sold but he needs to think of the country as a whole. There was a reason and I suspect he was worried about the tax structure of Canada if major corporations started to convert en masse.
Can you imagine what Canadians would say if they found out that corporate taxes comprised 40% of taxes and the rest came from individuals?
I suspect at the time he said no deficit he did not know what lay ahead of the government. A worldwide collapse of the financial markets and the collapse of the housing market in the States.
Even if he knew. Would you expect the PM to run around predicting a recession? That would not be too smart I would suggest given the impact on markets etc.
I suspect their was conflicting medical advice about adjuvenate vers. non adjuvenate and so there was a slow down in production of one for the other.
The fact remains the media has acting irresponsibily crying wolf when there really is no emergency. Its another strain of flu which kills 4000 Canadians a year.
However, when the media creates hysteria in the population do you expect that 32 million people are going to get the vaccine in a week or two. The media has been irresponsible. God helps if we really do have a pandemic.
[updated Tue Nov 03 22:55:08 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 22:55
Lex Llewdor
As Stephen Harper himself has said "I don't think there is such a thing as a good tax." Reducing corporate taxes is a good thing simply by virtue of it being a tax reduction.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:10:10 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:10
hollinm
Lex....reducing corporate taxes is a good thing but no tax not so much. As you know companies converting to an income trust would pay no corporate taxes.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:10:31 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:10
hollinm
syl....come off of it. Lets list the broken promises of the Chretien government. The list will be as long as your arm. So get off the high horse.
The Chretien government entered a 10 year contract with Glaxo who guaranteed we would have sufficient supply.
I suspect there was some conflict between the various health organizations about adjuvenate vs. nonadjuvenate. That caused a slow down in shipping of the vaccine.
No one and I will repeat no one anticipated the collapse of the housing and financial markets in the U.S. which caused a global recession.
Can you imagine what shape Canada would be in today if the Green Shift had been implemented and Dion got to spend the kind of money he was promising during the 08 election?
Well Iffy is promising the same thing...no tax increases. Canadians know that the Conservatives will do everything they can before increasing taxes. On the other hand give the tax and spend Liberals an opportunity and that will be their first course of action.
So you know the future eh. You know the troops will not be out by 2011
God you Liberals are pathetic.
[updated Tue Nov 03 22:45:16 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 22:45
brusmit (Suspended)
RonaldODowd,
After all, who can forget the vision of Chinese tanks in The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, and how that was represented to the world as one of the most base examples of the abuse of Human rights.
One definition of politics, is that is the act of saying one thing while doing another, why else would the former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, pack his bags, call all his Liberal buddies and head of to China, a country who back in the day when the Chinese had one of the worst records on Human Rights.
This did not stop, Mr. Chrétien from going to China, so why is a glad hand to the Afghanistan President such a bad thing in light of previous Liberal actions and as I say, politics is politics.
[updated Wed Nov 04 10:01:17 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 10:01
RonaldODowd
Brusmit,
Respectfully, nice try. But you will probably agree with me that Canadian blood was not been spilled on a regular basis in China...to my mind, our people are dying for a cause that is at least questionable.
(I'm like a dog with a bone on this one and will remain so inclined.)
[updated Wed Nov 04 10:05:46 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 10:05
brusmit (Suspended)
RonaldODowd,
II was replying to your comment, in particular the part that states and rather strongly I might add, if I am picking up the nuance correctly "is a complete farce: corrupt, ineffectual, irresponsible and utterly contemptible of the democratic process.
One would be hard pressed to suggest that the previous Chinese Government was at the very least, worthy of such a strong statement? One should consider that we have the Tiananmen Square massacre and in the People's Republic of China (PRC) as the June Fourth Incident is known as a point of reference to the Karzai Government.
To the best of my understanding there has not been such a blatant display of Human Right violation in Afghanistan by the current government and while the Afghanistan Government has been identified as one of the countries that have violation these rights, one would be hard pressed to place Afghanistan ahead of China on that list.
Which brings me back to my previous statement?
" This did not stop, Mr. Chrétien from going to China, so why is a glad hand to the Afghanistan President such a bad thing in light of previous Liberal actions and as I say, politics is politics."
In closing, I will throw out that two of the most repressive countries in history, Germany and Japan are now two of the strongest democracies in the world and as I recall there was Canadian bloodshed in order to achieve that.
Time has shown that their deaths were not in vain, time will tell if the current group of Canadians will be shown to have made the same difference.
[updated Wed Nov 04 11:48:09 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 11:48
RonaldODowd
Brusmit,
We're suddenly talking apples and oranges again. One cannot equate conventional warfare (the World Wars) with the current conflict in Afghanistan. I would think that McChrystal's arrival in Kabul is sufficient proof of that...we are dealing with a guerilla insurgency that can't be lost by the Taliban. Our best hope is for a possible stalemate on the ground.
Remember Brusmit, the British went in three times and the Soviets once prior to 2001. We both know how well that went. No one can beat the Afghans at their own game.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:05:46 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:05
brusmit (Suspended)
Good duck or should I say lame duck, your comment was about the shedding of Canadian blood, the where when how and why are not relavent to the discussion.
I have company so I can not stop to play today, be seeing you.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:53:32 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:53
RonaldODowd
Brusmit,
Perhaps not in your book but these factors are DIRECTLY relevant in mine.
See you.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:56:41 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:56
hollinm
Ronald...it is a little late to be second guessing our participation. That decision was made by Chretien to appease the Americans because he did not join the Iraq invasion. Paul Martin made the decision to move our troops from Kabul to Kandahar and as Chretien said in his biography..... to the killing fields of Kandahar.
As we all know it is difficult to get out once your are committed. Canada signed on to the Afghan Compact and we are obligated at this point.
Given our aid committment we will need to protect our aid workers and diplomats etc. Failing to do that would be irresponsible.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:27:22 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:27
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Perhaps I'm really living in a fool's paradise (as Brusmit has implied) but I want us to get out of our aid committment ASAP. Who cares if the UN, NATO, ISAF and the man in the moon are bent out of shape.
They'll get used to it just like we had to when Peter MacKay was pleading more times than I can count for true European participation in the field (theatre). They basically laughed off Canadian, US and British concerns about burden sharing...
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:47:03 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:47
RonaldODowd
My apologies -- forgot the Dutch.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:49:56 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:49
brusmit (Suspended)
RonaldODowd wrote:
"Perhaps I'm really living in a fool's paradise (as Brusmit has implied)"
Sorry dude, but I did not imply that you are living in a fools paradise, I just questioned your position .
Here are my posts, you changed this from
"This did not stop, Mr. Chrétien from going to China, so why is a glad hand to the Afghanistan President such a bad thing in light of previous Liberal actions and as I say, politics is politics."
to
"In closing, I will throw out that two of the most repressive countries in history, Germany and Japan are now two of the strongest democracies in the world and as I recall there was Canadian bloodshed in order to achieve that."
"Time has shown that their deaths were not in vain, time will tell if the current group of Canadians will be shown to have made the same difference. "
and
"Your comment was about the shedding of Canadian blood, the where when how and why are not relavent to the discussion."
All from my questioning as to why a well wish from the Prime Minster was not in keeping with common policy.
[updated Wed Nov 04 21:02:24 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 21:02
syl (suspended)
Perhaps?????...............you're the mayor!!!!
[updated Wed Nov 04 21:29:03 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 21:29
brusmit (Suspended)
sly (inactive)
I see that your lack of reading comprehension has raised it`s ugly little head, once again.
RonaldODowd wrote:
"Perhaps I'm really living in a fool's paradise (as Brusmit has implied)"
Hint, the "perhaps I`m" is RonaldODowd reply to my post.
If yopu are going to cut and paste, please up your game, as this was just poor.
[updated Wed Nov 04 22:29:22 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 22:29
hollinm
Ronald....I guess your position is that Canada should not be part of the world community. This is not our war. We only have 2500 people there. We discussed war before and we basically agree. However, if we always sit on the sidelines and talk a good game but never put our money where our mouths are our reputation in the world won't amount to much.
Continue to hang on to your convictions but sometimes you may have to show some flexibility.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:21:06 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:21
RonaldODowd
Hollinm,
Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't we been in Afghanistan since 2001-02? I know we first went in under Chrétien. (I know I should Google it but I really don't feel like it.)
In short, we've done more than our share already.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:36:08 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:36
hollinm
syl...like others in your party you cannot help yourself with the excessive hyperbole.
See my post to RonaldODowd below. You need to really give your head a shake and come up with some credible debating points. You seem to be running out of spin lines. Maybe its time you wait for the next poll that Nik does.
[updated Tue Nov 03 10:55:09 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 10:55
syl (suspended)
Credible debating points with whom? You have Harper tatooed on your a$$ just like a few more of your ilk. That makes it pretty hard to have intelligent debtate doesn't it. You all think attack ads are truth ads and negative politics the end all and be all and destruction of the Liberal party good for democracy.
[updated Tue Nov 03 12:43:11 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 12:43
brusmit (Suspended)
Makes it pretty hard to have intelligent debtate doesn't it when one is faced with having to deal with comments such as " You have Harper tatooed on your a$$ just like a few more of your ilk" or "You all think attack ads are truth ads and negative politics the end all and be all and destruction of the Liberal party good for democracy"
There is not one comment provided that would be worth the time to debate on.
[updated Tue Nov 03 13:36:21 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 13:36
syl (suspended)
When you start with anything above a basic DNA gene I'll join in. Baiting me isn't going anywhere.
[updated Tue Nov 03 18:11:46 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 18:11
hollinm
syl.....sorry too late. You already have been baited and many times before.
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:06:36 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:06
syl (suspended)
Mervin, sorry I don't take the bait. I attack it and toss it back.
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:28:15 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:28
brusmit (Suspended)
Interesting that you always reply, never with facts - just insults and Liberal talking points and as a FYI, that does go to the point that you are very easy to bait, the problem is that you are such a small fish,
Time to throw this little fish back in and time to try again for some bigger fish.
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:13:57 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:13
brusmit (Suspended)
hollinm,
Are they all so easy on this board, as I had stated I had hope for some lively debate, when I started posting, I must admit that the results that I have read from the Liberals are as disappointing as the CBC and in fact in many cases on a lower level
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:12:24 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:12
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"When you start with anything above a basic DNA gene I'll join in."
As stated previously, you need to step up your game, if you wish to play with the big boys and frankly, you are nowhere near the level required for the task.
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"Baiting me isn't going anywhere."
Interesting that you always reply, never with facts - just insults and Liberal talking points and as a FYI, that does go to the point that you are very easy to bait, the problem is that you are such a small fish, I just keep throwing you back in.
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:09:51 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:09
hollinm
brusmit....absolutely true. However, they feel it is their divine right to govern Canada and anyone who believes otherwise needs to be destroyed. They are masters at negative advertising and the smear campaign. Harper has learned well watching Chretien.
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:05:53 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:05
syl (suspended)
That's right you party is a copycat one w/o any ideals of their own. They are now trying to take the center from the Libs but will have to answer to that in the next election campaign. Harper will, of course, attempt to lie his way through it, but now he has lots of baggage and many many lies to answer for.
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:30:41 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:30
hollinm
syl....the problem is Harper is occupying the centre and therefore there is no room left for the Libs. So they have to keep centre left or maybe even left. Dion tried going left and got creamed.
I don't know what you are talking about " trying to take the center from the Libs but will have to answer to that in the next election campaign". That's where most Canadians sit i.e. in the centre so the Conservatives are quite comfortable sitting right where they are.
He is quite capable of defending his policies and his actions. On the other hand the Libs will have to answer for the fact they have no real policies, have a weak leader with no real political experience, have to hold a thinkers conference in the middle of January, and any policies they have mentioned is back to the furture i.e. national daycare (speaking of Lib lies), cap and trade, Kelowna and of course the impossible dream solving poverty. Go ahead run again on those old policies and see what Canadians do to the Liberal party.
[updated Wed Nov 04 05:21:27 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 05:21
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"They are now trying to take the center from the Libs but will have to answer to that in the next election campaign."
With an increased numbers of seats, resulting in yet another minority Government or a majority Government, where is the down side to having the Liberals sitting on the opposition benches plotting the demise of yet another Liberal Leader.
Your contention that the Canadian voters will "punish" the Conservatives for being in the center is moronic in its simplicity and show a complete lack of understanding of the most basic tenets of Canadian politics.
In closing, just who will they have to answer when they once again form Government, perhaps the new Liberal Leader, NDP Bob Rae and his new COS in the new Liberal OLO?
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:22:14 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:22
hollinm
syl...once again you are losing all perspective because of your ideological hatred for the Conservative government and keep repeating the same talking points.
I could say the same thing about you. You have the Liberal party and its feckless leader tatooed on your ass. You suggest calling people names and making superficial arguments against the government as intelligent debating points. I beg to differ.
Why does it bother you so much about the ads. The ads would not be effective if there was not truth in them. Quoting the words of your fearless leader is not an attack ad. The Liberals are the architects of the smear campaign. So we will not take any lessons from the likes of you or others.
I don't want to see the Liberal party destroyed. Thats not good for democracy. However, I do want to see it led by a credible leader who has shown that he has leadership qualities and understands politics and presents a party with realistic policies. I thought Martin had potential when he talked about fixing the democratic deficit but it turned out to be a lot of hot air.
Then when I found out the party was stealing from the taxpayer that was the end of them for me. One day I may support the Liberal party again but their recent track record leaves a lot to be desired.
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:04:01 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:04
syl (suspended)
Mervin, speaking of ideologues:
Once you get over the lie that it was the liberal party who "stole" money maybe you will return to your senses. It was done by a rogue group of non elected members of the party w/o the knowledge of the leader or his cabinet.it was paul martin who ordered the Gomery commission. Is is that hard to comprehend?
[updated Tue Nov 03 23:26:02 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 23:26
hollinm
syl....you can run but you can't hide. Chretien set up the fund and authorized every payment out of it. Gagliano probably worked his magic as the Godfather of Quebec. Corbeil is saying that 12 ridings received the money to help fight elections.
Somebody got the money and you know it. The old canard that no politician got caught is going to come crashing down as Corbeil names names.
No matter who called the inquiry (as if that means anything) Judge Gomery found Chretien set up the conditions and to suggest that no one in the government knew is naive in the extreme or an outright lie. Ask Canadian who they believe got the benefit of the money. I'll tell you the Liberal Party of Canada.
[updated Wed Nov 04 05:26:33 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 05:26
syl (suspended)
Back on topic and not old history week.
I wondder if harper will compliment the Chinese leadership on their human rights just like he complimented Karzai. What a phoney liar.
[updated Wed Nov 04 06:31:45 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 06:31
hollinm
syl....of course you want to forget amount the largest fraud of taxpayer money and it was the Liberal party. Its not over. The GG is going to start investigating it again to find the missing $43 million, Corbeil is going to sing like a bird, I suspect Guite may still have something more to say, Renaud is going to talk as well. It is not over my friend. Just in time for the next election too.
The fact is Karzai was declared the president and we may not like the process but he is the president.and we need to have business like relationship with him.
Don't you worry about Harper and China. Despite what Libs and some in the media say our relationship with China is bad the facts speak for themselves. For instance exports increased 43% in 2007. Not bad for somebody who has never been there.
Watch those photo ops coming back from India and China and weep. Your guy backed out or was it because the Chinese dininvited him. Only his bushy eyebrows knows.
[updated Wed Nov 04 09:14:32 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 09:14
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"I wondder if harper will compliment the Chinese leadership on their human rights just like he complimented Karzai."
Interesting observation, however it would appear that you missed the memo from the various former COS in the OLO, as it stated that Mr. Harper has impacted Canada`s relationship with China.
The Liberals have been stating that, because of the Conservatives attention to the lack of civil and human rights that are being allowed in China and that this action by the current sitting Conservative Government has damaged our relationship almost beyond repair.
Conservative are speaking up for Human rights and the Liberals, well they are just being Liberals, looking for the next scandal.
sly (Inactive) wrote:
" What a phoney liar."
What can one say other than; it is just another Liberal reflection in the mirror, looking back.
[updated Wed Nov 04 09:42:09 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 09:42
brusmit (Suspended)
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"Once you get over the lie that it was the liberal party who "stole" money maybe you will return to your senses. It was done by a rogue group of non elected members of the party w/o the knowledge of the leader or his cabinet."
There is an old saying, follow the money and Mr. Martin did not allow the commission to do that nor did he allow the commission to assign criminal blame in their report.
You can confirm this with a simple online check of the terms and conditions of the commission, so your contention that "it was done by a rogue group" only has never been proven.
Going back to follow the money, the Conservatives with the aid of the NDP will have enough votes on the ethics commission to allow Ms. Fraser to follow the money and her report would be in time for the next general election.
One of the issues, that needs to be answered is why, some of the smallest Liberal riding have hundreds of thousands of dollars, when there is only a handful of members.
Just to update you on some of the recent developments from Sun Media Group,
Help find sponsorship loot, Tory MP urges, By PETER ZIMONJIC, NATIONAL BUREAU, Last Updated: 2nd November 2009, 3:55am.
From the article.
Tory MP Dean Del Mastro wants support from opposition MPs to call in Auditor General Sheila Fraser to investigate where $43 million in missing sponsorship scandal money went.
Del Mastro will introduce a motion at the Commons ethics committee to this effect tomorrow. It calls on Fraser to "conduct a full audit of the sponsorship program to determine which federal Liberal riding associations received stolen funds and to clarify for Canadians who received the missing $43 million dollars."
Del Mastro says he was prompted to introduce the motion because there is still no answer to where the money went four years after a key report into the sponsorship scandal was published.
"A lot of money has been stolen from taxpayers in what justice Gomery said was an elaborate kickback scheme," said Del Mastro. "A lot of that money has never been accounted for and the trust of parliament is very important. It's time for justice."
NDP deputy leader Thomas Mulcair says his party wants to see the specifics of the motion but, if it's broadly in line with a call to investigate what happened with adscam money, his party would most likely support it.
"We're aware there are unanswered questions on the sponsorship scandal and we're ready to help get to the bottom of what happened to the money," said Mulcair.
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:36:33 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:36
brusmit (Suspended)
hollinm,
Good post with facts, not fiction, no insults and a reasoned approach to the issue being discussed.
Have a good day.
[updated Wed Nov 04 08:25:55 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 08:25
hollinm
brusmit....you have a great day as well.
This guy syl is apparently a died in the wool Liberal who never addresses the issues raised by us but moves on to other talking points. I suppose there is no defence for some of the points we have paid.
When we ask him does Iffy know anything about economics we both know he will change the subject because the real answer is no.
[updated Wed Nov 04 09:17:28 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 09:17
brusmit (Suspended)
hollinm,
As an FYI, he just an example of the CBC trolls, that you find on Canada`s National network.
The last time I saw this much weaving and ducking, was when the Liberals were busy dening Adscam.
[updated Wed Nov 04 09:45:49 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 09:45
syl (suspended)
when will you actuially post something relevant. The BS starts with you.
I say tories are crooks and liars and have delivered proof. You then get inebriated by polls that are by nature temporary as your response.
[updated Wed Nov 04 10:05:06 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 10:05
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"I say tories are crooks and liars and have delivered proof. You then get inebriated by polls that are by nature temporary as your response."
I have reviewed your posts as you have made them and you have never provided a link to support your position and as Mr. Nanos does say, the numbers are the numbers.
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"The BS starts with you."
The truth has to start somewhere, why not here and as to relevance, well the Liberals started to be irrelevant back in 2004 with the selection of Mr. Martin as leader and have been less and less relevant as the years have progressed, first with Mr. Dion and now with Mr. Ignatieff.
177 seats down to 77 in such a short time, well how can one argue against this fact and the reduction in seats does indicate that the Liberals have become irrelevant to a growing number of Canadians.
If you wish to see the numbers, I would direct you to Elections Canada`s website as it contains all the relative data you will require to make a reasoned reply.
[updated Wed Nov 04 11:04:23 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 11:04
syl (suspended)
THE TORY FAILURES ARE BEING EXPOSED MORE AND MORE
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/greg_weston/2009/11/04/11626706-sun.html
"Thank heavens for Sheila Fraser, and viva Canuckistan republica banana!"
Canadians who fear their hard-earned tax money is disappearing down a black hole will no doubt be relieved to learn they are actually investing in government mismanagement on a grand scale.
Auditor general Sheila Fraser's latest compendium of federal misdeeds calls into question the basic competence of a Conservative government already under fire over stimulus squander and the current flu-shot fiasco.
Surprising only to those awaking from a long coma, Fraser concluded that Stephen Harper's government of big cardboard cheques is far better at making announcements than actually implementing them.
Some of Fraser's findings would be worthy of a comedic spoof were the consequences not so dire.
The Department of Public Safety, for instance, is responsible for co-ordinating national responses to large-scale emergencies, disasters and other crises such as the current H1N1 flu pandemic.
Most ordinary Canadians probably believe that preparing and dealing with catastrophe is rather fundamental to the whole concept of government.
Apparently not.
Fraser found that while the public safety department has a "federal emergency response plan," it never has actually been implemented.
The department also has spent a fortune and many memos to co-ordinate police, firefighters, medical and ambulance crews in response to a major disaster.
Nothing concrete
Years later, Fraser reports, they still don't even have compatible walkie-talkies.
The auditor general says the public safety department has made progress in the areas of "strategy, framework and plan development."
The only thing missing is "what concrete steps it would take to co-ordinate federal action in the event of an actual emergency of national significance." Details. Details.
Over the past three years, the Harper government has announced no end of measures to bring order to the chaos that is Canada's immigration and refugee system.
Fraser notes, for instance, that the backlog of skilled workers waiting to get into the country could take up to 25 years to eliminate.
In response, the Conservatives introduced "sweeping changes" almost two years ago that promised to fast-track foreign skilled workers to meet specific needs of the labour market.
It all sounded good in the press release.
But as Fraser notes: "We saw little evidence that this shift is part of any clear strategy to best meet Canada's labour needs."
The measures did manage to reduce the old queue of more than 600,000 skilled workers by 6% last year, mainly by rejecting new applicants or putting them in a different lineup.
Canada Health Infoway is a federal agency that has spent $1.6 billion since 2001, leading the development of a national system of electronic health records.
Fraser notes the agency has been fabulously successful at planning, consulting, developing mechanisms, standards and management systems galore.
Unfulfilled promises
The only things missing are electronic medical records, still only available to a small fraction of sick Canadians.
The Canadian International Development Agency will dole out more than $4 billion of taxpayers' money in foreign aid this year, but Fraser reports finding no real plan to ensure the money goes where it will do the most good.
Over at National Defence, the procurement department has so far managed to spend three years buying new light armoured vehicles for our troops in Afghanistan, preferably before they leave.
So far, the project is only 120% over budget.
Thank heavens for Sheila Fraser, and viva Canuckistan republica banana!
greg.weston@sunmedia.ca
[updated Wed Nov 04 13:45:52 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 13:45
brusmit (Suspended)
Well that is an improvement, now if you can only make a reasonable comment based on the piece in your own words we can start the debate.
The reason is that if I wished to debate what was in the piece I would contact MR. Weston and engage him of his thoughts.
So time to cut bait, little fish or do I have to throw you back again.
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:34:10 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:34
brusmit (Suspended)
sly (Inactive),
Yelling does not improve our position nor does it make it any more valid, it just indicates that you are not able to debate in an adult manner, without the yelling and name calling.
And as I had stated previously, if I had wished to debate Mr. Weston on his position, I would have contacted him.
I do find it rather redundant to debate someone who borrows another` individuals stated position, as the words, thoughts and process by which Mr. Weston arrived at his conclusion are his not yours.
[updated Wed Nov 04 20:27:23 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 20:27
syl (suspended)
Iggy obviously knows more about economics than Harper who ha managed to get an approval for a $32BB deficit and then blows it by double.
What is it you would like to know about Iggy's economics?
[updated Wed Nov 04 10:03:14 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 10:03
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (inactive) wrote:
"Iggy obviously knows more about economics than Harper who ha managed to get an approval for a $32BB deficit and then blows it by double. "
As per Mr. Page the number is $56.0 Billion, so let us do the math here and we will do it slowly so that you can follow.
32 + 32 = 64, not 56 and if you double 32, you do get 64.
As to the break down,
The $32.0 was for stimulus spending.
$15.0 Billion for the automotive sector, which as I recall the Liberal were calling for at the time, this expense is taken as a one hit and if the money is paid back, this will go against as income against future deficits.
$6 to $8 billion dollars to EI as the Liberals had stripped $50.0 billion dollars to fund their surplus and pet programs.
I could go on, but I rather expect you are now outside your pay grade.
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"What is it you would like to know about Iggy's economics? "
Whatever you think you can provide, this should be intertaining to say the least.
[updated Wed Nov 04 11:18:03 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 11:18
syl (suspended)
I can do the math it was $32BB on April 1 and is $56BB 6 months later. You figure out the growth. Flaherty is a born liar who hasn't told the truth ever.
[updated Wed Nov 04 13:47:47 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 13:47
brusmit (Suspended)
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"it doubled" -
32 + 32 = 64 not 56, there is nothing to figure out, other than you can not add.
sly (Inactive) wrote:
"Flaherty is a born liar who hasn't told the truth ever. "
Not much of a point, much in much in line with your others,
[updated Wed Nov 04 14:39:40 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 14:39
syl (suspended)
have you ever heard the term "pro rata". The deficit is going up monthly and I do predict it will reach close to $70BB by the end of March. Flaherty is the same guy who said last year's books would come in close to no deficit and it finally hit $7BB IIRC.
I'll stick to my math as yours is definitely faulty due to a lack of "liar" input.
[updated Wed Nov 04 17:58:11 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 17:58
hollinm
syl...if you don't like it have your feckless leader stand up in the House and recommend Harper stop paying EI benefits.
Better still force an election and see where Canadians stand. You can always do this. Oh, I forgot the other opposition parties won't support the Libs.
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:39:00 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:39
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"have you ever heard the term "pro rata".
As an FYI, when someone gives you a new word you should requested that they school you in it`s meaning and possible uses.
I have four possible definations, that might fit your attempted use of the word pro rata, however to enable the word to be used correctly, you would be required to provide a "specific factor" ie $56.0 B or a "factor that can be exactly calculated" the use of multiple entries does not work IE $56 B, $60.0 B or $70.0 B that you have now used over three different posts, unless of course you use a "proportional measure" but then you would have to determine what the allocation is or you can just put in all proportion.
1) In proportion to, as determined by a specific factor.
2) In proportion to some factor that can be exactly calculated.
3) The term pro-rata refers to allocation between multiple entities based on a proportional measure.
4) Proportionately: in proportion.
And the lesson continue.
[updated Wed Nov 04 20:44:48 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 20:44
hollinm
syl.....his past experience of writing books and his talk show days sure don't say he has any economic experience. If he does tell us. Most academics can't even balance their personal cheque books. You can't because you don't know him other than what you have read about him since coming back to Canada.
Your comments doesn't make sense. Because the government incurs a deficit of $32 billion and then by some magic it proves Iffy knows more about economics. Yikes!
[updated Wed Nov 04 18:35:57 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 18:35
syl (suspended)
What's your economic experience Mervin, that makes you able to judge Iggy's ability?
[updated Wed Nov 04 21:27:53 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 21:27
hollinm
syl......got you..... I worked in the financial industry for 36 years. I know how to use numbers and know what budgets are and understand how the government spends its money.
Iffy stays away from talking about the economy other than in the most general of terms. Like most academics he probably can't balance his own cheque book.
If he has economic credentials pls. share them with brusmit and I we would love to know that if elected Iffy has some understanding of the economy and how it works. Never mind he won't get elected so it is not an issue.
[updated Wed Nov 04 23:06:33 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 23:06
syl (suspended)
You were a teller in a bank.....give me a break.
Tell us first how "economist" Harper understands the economy when he creates the largest deficit of any government ever in Canada's history.
[updated Thu Nov 05 00:07:33 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 00:07
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"Tell us first how "economist" Harper understands the economy when he creates the largest deficit of any government ever in Canada's history."
That type of explanation is completely outside your pay grade and it would be extremely difficult to explain such a complicated process to any individual who has not even the most rudimentary knowledge of how the world economics work and their relationship to Canada in this time of Global recession.
[updated Thu Nov 05 08:02:04 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 08:02
brusmit (Suspended)
hollinm,
The problem with the CBC personnel that troll the various boards at the bequest of the Liberal Party of Canada is that they lack the skills to debate and to provide a measured response to the issues facing Canada and that they continue to reply with insults and innuendo and not reasonable debate.
Case in point and at the highest and lowest levels of the Liberal party we find Mr. Ignatieff who was or is a Harvard Professor and sly (Inactive), partisan extraordinary.
When one listens to their tone and manner of writing and speaking, one will continually find when reading and listening to their remarks that there is a very fundamental level of very base remarks within the context of their expressed views.
No matter how eloquent that Mr. Ignatieff makes the delivery of his speeches or sly (Inactive) writes, that simplistic base under tone is always there.
Have a great day.
[updated Thu Nov 05 07:56:22 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 07:56
syl (suspended)
And, do you work for the CTV branch of the tory party?
Give your head a shake. Your remark is more stupid than I thought you could get with your distastful partisan remarks.
Why don't we discuss the little but important turn in the polls out today. They spell trouble for Herpercrite in central Canada, considering how bad you think Iggy is.
ah yes you do like to divert attention away from negatives...we've seen that picture before.
[updated Thu Nov 05 08:40:43 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 08:40
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive) wrote:
"Why don't we discuss the little but important turn in the polls out today. They spell trouble for Herpercrite in central Canada, considering how bad you think Iggy is. "
I will assume that you are referring to the most recent CBC / Ekos poll for the period 10/28/2009.
Now if you had taken the time to review the data within the poll and here is the link to help you with future posts...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/EKOSdatatablesNovember5.pdf
The poll shows the Conservatives continue to lead the Liberals in the five traditional power base that the Liberals used to dominate and with these numbers I am sure that RonaldODowd will conceed that the timing is still not right for the Liberals.
1) Gender - women Conservatives 33.6% and the Liberals at 28.3%
2) Schooling - University Conservatives 33.4% and the Liberals 32.4%,
Schooling - College Conservatives 39.5% and the Liberals 24.0
3) Canadians born outside Canada - Conservatives 39.5% and for the Liberals 34.1%
4) Age under 25 - Conservatives 25.4%, the Liberals 24.9%
4) Age 25 / 45 - Conservatives 31.6%, and the Liberals 27.7%
5) Ontario - Conservatives 39.6% down from 41.4% in the previous poll but still above the Liberals who are sitting at 33.6% up from 31.2%
5) Toronto - Conservatives 41.1% up from 36.5% and still above the Liberals who are at 37.7% up slightly from 37.6%
The only area, that shows any growth in Ontario for the Liberals is in the Ottawa area, where the Conservative have dropped from 47.7% in the previous poll to 39.7% and the Liberals have seen their number increase to 36.7% in this poll from 29.4%
Hardly cause for the Liberals to be out cheering for an election and as a side bar the by-elections will soon be on us, it will be interesting to see how the numbers play out for the Liberals..
[updated Thu Nov 05 09:51:46 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 09:51
hollinm
brusmit.....that the trouble with syl...He can't argue the real facts because you are quick to present your arguments based on the facts. Good job.
[updated Thu Nov 05 11:31:51 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 11:31
brusmit (Suspended)
Thanks hollinm,
I was wondering if RonldODowd would have piped in on the debate.
In any case, it would appear to have escaped the attention of sly (Inactive) and the other worthy Liberals that we find ourselves back at the same numbers that the Conservatives and the Liberals received for the Fortieth General Election on October 14th 2008.
The Conservatives under Mr. Harper had and still have 37.4% and the Liberals first under Mr. Dion and then under Mr. Ignatieff or mired at 26.8%, so I have to ask what has transpired other the past year that would cause the Liberal number to remain at such historic low levels.
In the past year, we have had a country wide recession, the rise of the Canadian dollar, a word wide recession, buy American, the soft wood lumber issue, deflation, the collapse of the lumber industry, a $56.0 billion dollar deficit, monetary issues, the banks being "bailed" out, the lack of liquidity within the banking sector, the collapse of the housing market, the $15.0 Billion dollar auto bail out.
We have seen rising unemployment, H1N1, the $30.0 Billion dollar stimulus package, $6.0 to $8.0 Billion dollars for the EI system, massive intervention by the BOC, massive job loss of manufacturing jobs in Ontario, the need to reform the pension system, HST, the massive drop in federal revenue, an Auditor General Report, the Budget Office attacking the econmoic numbers of the Government and now throw in all the Conservative "scandals" that the Liberals have brought forward and the list goes on.
With all that going on and the Liberals are still at 26.8%, so what is up.
[updated Thu Nov 05 14:00:33 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 14:00
brusmit (Suspended)
sly (Inactive wrote)
"Give your head a shake. Your remark is more stupid than I thought you could get with your distastful partisan remarks."
Here is a sample of your more generous remarks that you have directed at me and others over the three most recent threads and they do seem to meet the criteria of distasteful and partisan.
I will offer once again, to return to thoughtful and respectful debate on the issues.
" Her seasoned logic proving the tories are liars and incomepetent is upon us."
" It will be fun to watch them squirming while Harper disappears on joy rides ."
" but keep up with your garbage its fun watching you play silly immature games."
"before you get your big mouth in deeper"
" You are posting garbage and avoiding facts like a real tory"
" These idiots in power now don't."
" One illegitimate leader congratulates another similar leader."
" Perhaps?????...............you're the mayor!!!!"
" You have Harper tatooed on your a$$ just like a few more of your ilk"
" When you start with anything above a basic DNA gene I'll join in"
" Harper will, of course, attempt to lie his way through it, but now he has lots of baggage and many many lies to answer for."
" What a phoney liar."
" Flaherty is a born liar who hasn't told the truth ever."
" I'll stick to my math as yours is definitely faulty due to a lack of "liar" input."
" You were a teller in a bank.....give me a break."
[updated Thu Nov 05 10:06:49 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 10:06
syl (suspended)
Do you want my autograph also?
[updated Thu Nov 05 10:55:48 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 10:55
brusmit (Suspended)
syl (Inactive),
Why would I wish to have an autograph of such as loser and I see from your reply that you have decided to continue your pattern of insults.
You did ask for a debate on the new numbers, however I see that you and all the other Liberals have ducked the debate once again and I will offer once again, to return to thoughtful and respectful debate on the issues, if you care to.
Have a great day.
[updated Thu Nov 05 13:22:55 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 13:22
hollinm
Syl....sure a 10 pt difference is something to really be worried about.
The fact is despite two weeks of innuendo and smears all the Libs could do was hide their leader and stop the slide.
Did you look at the regional breakdowns? I know they are small but its the trend right. Other than for Quebec the Conservatives are beating the Libs and in Quebec its within the margin of error.
So keep living in your Liberal dream world and grasping at straws.
[updated Thu Nov 05 11:29:54 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 11:29
The Canadian pandemic plan; which resulted after SARS, will have to be over-hauled.
I do sympathize with Canadians and all levels of governments. This is a real-time pandemic and the Chretien era plan does have some flaws; even the Liberals are opposing Chretien's plan.
Regards,
[updated Tue Nov 03 09:00:38 -0500 2009]
03 Nov 09:00
28 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
syl (suspended)
still no answers of substance from the useless Tories on swine flu vaccine availability:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/04/the-commons-questions-assurances-innuendo-and-a-man-named-donald/
[updated Wed Nov 04 21:34:32 -0500 2009]
04 Nov 21:34
6 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
syl (suspended)
It appears that Harper is once again outed as a hypocrite. In 1995 he went against his party and voted with the liberals when gun control legislation was first passed.
It also turns out that Peter Van Loan was witholding a usage report on the registry, until today, which shows the costs of managing it are way down and police inquiries are way up,over 4000 in the last year alone.
Don't you just love these honest and accountable Tories.
[updated Thu Nov 05 15:39:34 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 15:39
14 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
syl (suspended)
Maybe the pollsters are getting it wrong.
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2009/11/5/4372877.html
This was an attempt by a tory MP in Manitoba to bring more glory to his party and he got his butt kicked. When asked if his party the reformatorts were managing the economy well he got an 88% rejection rate.
[updated Thu Nov 05 18:00:19 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 18:00
4 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
syl (suspended)
Here's a little history lesson from the Romans herpescrite should learn:
Wikipedia has a nice little summary of some events that happened during Nero's lamentable rule:
"Nero also built a new palace complex known as the Domus Aurea in an area cleared by the fire. This included lush artificial landscapes and a 30 meter statue of himself, the Colossus of Nero... To find the necessary funds for the reconstruction, tributes were imposed on the provinces of the empire. According to Tacitus, the population searched for a scapegoat and rumors held Nero responsible. To deflect blame, Nero targeted Christians. He ordered Christians to be thrown to dogs, while others were crucified and burned… In 64, Nero began singing in public … in order to improve his popularity."
Hmmm …
Now, its apparent the behaviour of PM Harper and his government match some of Nero's behaviours.
First, Nero is accused by Roman historians of inaction during a severe crisis. Then, during the crisis, legend has it that he played the fiddle while Rome burned. And then he is charged with trying to shift the blame from himself to others.
Well, yesterday, Harper and his government were also accused of inaction, and trying to shift the blame:
[updated Thu Nov 05 19:34:02 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 19:34
1 reply so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
brusmit (Suspended)
We now find ourselves one year later, back at the same numbers that the Conservatives and the Liberals received for the Fortieth General Election on October 14th 2008.
The Conservatives under Mr. Harper had and still has 37.4% and the Liberals first under Mr. Dion and then under Mr. Ignatieff or mired at 26.8%, so I have to ask what has transpired other the past year that would cause the Liberal number to remain at such historic low levels and why have the Liberals not been able to make any head way.
In the past year, we have had a country wide recession, the rise of the Canadian dollar, a word wide recession, buy American, the soft wood lumber issue, deflation, the collapse of the lumber industry, a $56.0 billion dollar deficit, monetary issues, the banks being "bailed" out, the lack of liquidity within the banking sector, the collapse of the housing market, the $15.0 Billion dollar auto bail out.
We have seen rising unemployment, H1N1, the $30.0 Billion dollar stimulus package, $6.0 to $8.0 Billion dollars for the EI system, massive intervention by the BOC, massive job loss of manufacturing jobs in Ontario, the need to reform the pension system, HST, the massive drop in federal revenue, an Auditor General Report, the Budget Office attacking the econmoic numbers of the Government, the crash of the stock markets here and abroad and now throw in all the those many Conservative "scandals" that the Liberals have brought forward and the list goes on.
With all that going on and the Liberals are still at 26.8% so what is up, under most case the ruling party would have found themselves if they were lucky at the Liberals numbers.
The poll shows the Conservatives continue to lead the Liberals in the five traditional power base that the Liberals used to dominate and have in fact grown their vote in these areas over the past three weeks at the high of the H1N1.
1) Gender - women Conservatives 33.6% and the Liberals at 28.3%
2) Schooling - University Conservatives 33.4% and the Liberals 32.4%,
Schooling - College Conservatives 39.5% and the Liberals 24.0
3) Canadians born outside Canada - Conservatives 39.5% and for the Liberals 34.1%
4) Age under 25 - Conservatives 25.4%, the Liberals 24.9%
4) Age 25 / 45 - Conservatives 31.6%, and the Liberals 27.7%
5) Ontario - Conservatives 39.6% down from 41.4% in the previous poll but still above the Liberals who are sitting at 33.6% up from 31.2%
5) Toronto - Conservatives 41.1% up from 36.5% and still above the Liberals who are at 37.7% up slightly from 37.6%
The only area, that shows any growth in Ontario for the Liberals is in the Ottawa area, where the Conservative have dropped from 47.7% in the previous poll to 39.7% and the Liberals have seen their number increase to 36.7% in this poll from 29.4%
Hardly cause for the Liberals to be out cheering for an election and as a side bar the by-elections will soon be on us, it will be interesting to see how the numbers
[updated Thu Nov 05 20:16:18 -0500 2009]
05 Nov 20:16
19 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
brusmit (Suspended)
One might have thought that with some of the more pressing issues facing Canadians today, the Liberals and their media friends might have made some of the following as the news of day.
Issues such as unemployment reform, the deficit, the loss of jobs in the manufacturing sector, deflation, stimulus spending, H1N1, immigration, refugee, the recession, the high unemployment rate and a host of other issues might have made the list.
Of course, none of those were able to move the Liberal numbers off their historic lows under Mr. Ignatieff and with the Liberals now floundering about, looking for the next great scandal or scandals that will thrust them into power.
So here is the new current list of new Conservative "scandals", brought to you by the Liberals and the Liberal friendly media, hopefully they will be able to provide the momentum that the Liberals require to jump start their return to power as such news items in the past year have proven to be of extreme importance and are foremost in the minds of thoughtful Canadians.
After all without any public policy, new ideas, programs, direction and their vision for Canada, what is there for the Liberals to discuss with and engage Canadians with other than the next new great "scandal?"
1) Toronto Star: Cities stuck with bill for Tory 'propaganda', 11/05/2009.
2) Toronto Star: Raitt accused of expense abuse, 11/05/2009.
3) CTV: Tories accused of not playing fair with the torch, 11/05/2009.
4) National Post: Don Martin: Liberal torch paranoia flames up, 11/05/2009.
5) Globe and Mail: Aspiring public servants must reveal views on stimulus plan, 11/04/2009.
6) Globe and Mail: Olympic mittens and 1-800-Mike-Duffy, 11/04/2009.
7) Globe and Mail: Fund us or shut us down, budget watchdog says, 11/05/2009.
8) Globe and Mail: Auditor-General sounds alarm on immigration policy, 11/04/2009.
9) CTV: NDP claims 27 new Tory senators will cost $177M, The Canadian Press, Thursday Nov. 5, 2009 1:13 PM ET.
10) CTV: Minister grilled over release of a gun registry report, Date: Thursday Nov. 5, 2009 6:57 PM ET.
11) Toronto Star: Liberals want Harper to call audit, Published On Fri Nov 6 2009.
12) Toronto Star: Why were port authority board minutes altered? Published On Fri Nov 6 2009.
13) Globe and Mail: Stimulus money favours key Tories, Heather Scoffield, and Ottawa— the Canadian Press Published on Thursday, Nov. 05, 2009 8:11PM EST.
[updated Fri Nov 06 09:53:41 -0500 2009]
06 Nov 09:53
3 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
brusmit (Suspended)
Here are three current headlines, from three prominent news outlets all of whom are offering differing and contradicting views on the current H1N1 situation in Canada and you can add the CBC, CTV, Toronto Star, Globe and Mail to the list as well.
With each media outlet and their respective reporters and columnists, each adding their own view and political spin on the impact of H1N1 and the distribution (Federal), roll out (provincial) and the administration (by the Cities and regional health units), couple in the politics being played out in Ottawa by the opposition parties.
Is there any wonder that Canadians find themselves confused and increasing scared as each of the media outlets and opposition parties, each position themselves with self serving stories that may gain them an additional viewer or voter.
I really cannot understand their actions as these actions are on the surface some of the most debased practices that I have seen in a very long time and the underlying currents that we are seeing or putting Canadians at risk
We do not need any more headlines such as the ones we have seen from Mr. Rae and Ms Bennett, nor do we need the fear mongering from the Liberal benches and opposition about the roll out of the administration on the doses, all that has lead to is Canadians streaming the clinics not out of need but out of fear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Post: H1N1 flu nears peak, experts suggest,
Tom Blackwell Published: Thursday, November 05, 2009.
"The H1N1 virus is spreading rapidly across the country, causing more illness than some doctors have seen in a flu season, but the pandemic has yet to seriously burden the country's hospitals and might be close to peaking, experts and government statistics suggest"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Star: Flu pandemic is 'not slowing down'
November 6, 2009 Joanna Smith OTTAWA BUREAU.
"Anyone thinking of riding out the swine flu pandemic without getting a shot will have a long time to wait for the outbreak to pass says the head of the federal public health agency."
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Global TV: Brace for more H1N1 deaths, Canada's top doctor warns
Meagan Fitzpatrick, CanWest News Service: Thursday, November 5, 2009.
"Canadians should be prepared to hear about more swine flu deaths in the coming weeks as the H1N1 pandemic is showing no signs of slowing down, the country's top doctor warned Thursday."
"On the contrary, the spread of the H1N1 virus picked up speed over the past week, Chief Public Health Officer Dr. David Butler-Jones said at a news conference, and its prevalence is nearing levels that were seen at the peak of the first wave in June."
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[updated Fri Nov 06 09:57:12 -0500 2009]
06 Nov 09:57
10 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.
syl (suspended)
I have posted suggestions on several websites and blogs for people to mobilize and demand the resignation of mike duffus from the senate for his outrageous remarks yesterday.
[updated Fri Nov 06 22:23:53 -0500 2009]
06 Nov 22:23
9 replies so far. Join this conversationHide this conversation.