Harper has "poisoned the well" in parliament - path forward is uncertain

I couldn't agree more what your assessment. Harper has completely overplayed his hand.

Another important consideration, I think, is for Harper's own future as leader. Its my belief that his leadership is substantially more tenuous than people believe. Media and political watchers (myself included) love to complain about/commend/idolize/demonize/dissect/write fan lit about the tight control Harper exerts over his caucus. People - and MPs and grassroots organizers are, after all, people - resent being tightly controlled.

We've also seen just how deep the divide between the policy positions Harper has taken and the policy wishes of his party's base truly is. This was made particularly clear two weeks ago in Winnipeg.

I believe that the grass roots and caucus members of the Conservative party put up with Harper only because of his "legendary" tactical brilliance. He keeps them in power, and as long as he does, they'll tolerate him. The instant he starts to slip though, his leadership is not just in danger, but almost certain to die. I believe we could be witnessing the beginning of the end of Harper not just as PM, but as leader of the Conservatives.
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http://albertosaurustalks.blogspot.com

[updated Mon Dec 01 01:24:03 EST 2008]

Personally, I am most disappointed with Harper's actions as I rightly expected him to do everything in his power to make this parliament work. He asked for the job and he got it. He is peeved that HE did not get the majority that he believes he so rightly deserved. He almost seems to reject the fact that the opposition was elected by the same voter. He is in a position to make mischief like a naughty kid but, like those petulent kids, he will get his knucles rapped which just happened and he has had to reverse his behaviour. I wonder if historians will refer to Harper as "The Fox of the House" rather than the respected statesman he could have become. I suggest Harper has lost more than just this week in the House. Earlier I said that with this election, Harper was the best choice and, obviously, my decision was faulty.---I also said earlier that parliament would probably not function as it should until after both major parties had replaced their leaders and one party is in that process now.

[updated Mon Dec 01 01:35:09 EST 2008]

Here is the bottomline I do not want any NDP or Liberals running the country when they were not elected to do so. Eliminate the Senate it is just a out house with the Liberals in it. We do not like the EAST period. Do you get the message!

[updated Mon Dec 01 02:51:15 EST 2008]

Is everyone else living in a dreamworld?

The so-called "loyal" opposition parties are in no way fit to govern over their own parties let alone our country.

I can't believe people are still making a fuss over Harper and whatever little things he does or doesn't do "right" or to their liking, it's amazing how entirely blind sided you all are to just how bad it would be if the opposition got their wish... especially given the timing.

I often wonder if any of you blokes even bother to listen in on much CPAC to see what is really going on in parliament. (despite what some of you say)

The Conservatives are clearly the moderates of the bunch and it makes little sense for them to not be getting the support they now rightly deserve and even less to have them tossed out of government.

They've only been in power for (nearly?) 3 years, NOT EVEN A FULL TERM-- and with only a minority--yet they've managed to get a whole slew of things done that not even the last Liberal Majority can match up to.

Does it make sense to keep hating on a Government that actually accomplishes a great deal of what it sets out to do while at the same time blaming it for ever little inconvenience?

Are we all this unmanageable? People here sure do "whyne" like the dickens.

And we don't even have it 1/5th as bad as the U.S. and live in one of top countries to live in if not the best... yet is it ever enough for some of you? Appreciate what you got.

The above was directly at everyone in general who posts on this forum...
This next bit is for Nik.

"Considering that the last election was called by Stephen Harper to end a dysfunctional parliament, it would be fair to say that the Prime Minister himself in this instance has poisoned the well."

Actually, if you've been watching you'd notice that the government had done a much better job this time around and yet everyone seems to completely ignore when the opposition parties go out of hand.

Why are you trying to make it sound like everything is Harper's doing and that "he's the instigator"?

I know your just trying to strike up some debate but what with the teetering to the Left?
Thought you were supposed to be non-bias. whatever.

[updated Mon Dec 01 02:54:43 EST 2008]

Nik. I must say I am a bit surprised by your honesty and candor in this report. The conclusions you reached are fairly obvious to anyone who is not a Harper lemming. The games being played in Ottawa are really just hiding the fact Harper has no idea what to do about the global economic collapse. That of course is because there is no solution even for Canada. We are an exporting nation but can't force our products on others who are in worse shape than we are. We could lessen the effect of the global recession by creating jobs and buying our own goods. Green technology would be a great place to do that. Unfortunately if we take steps to lessen our dependence on oil and gas the people out west will blame us for destroying their economy and will be that much closer to seperation. We are in a no win situation because of this game Harper is playing . The west will be gone with the Harper government and that was his goal all along. Destroy the Liberals or the country which ever comes first.

[updated Mon Dec 01 09:21:01 EST 2008]

We need an election and who says Canadians don't want another election.
This Coalition was planned a long time ago and nothing the Stephen Harper has done would change a thing. When everything comes out in the open, I think we'll find that meetings took place right after the election to take power away from the elected government.

[updated Mon Dec 01 10:44:16 EST 2008]

Hi Nik,

Because I don't want to overly poison the well, I will be making only sporadic comments from this point on. As you may have noticed, I've been keeping some things in since 2004 but I don't want to overdo it.

Regards,

Ron

[updated Mon Dec 01 10:59:50 EST 2008]

Nik, I agree with your assessment. Harper totally misread the temper of the opposition. The Liberals in particular have been stung by the reaction to their lack of action in the previous parliament, and indicated early on that they would be changing course this time. Harper thought they were bluffing, tried a bluff of his own and has been caught out badly.

The NDP has been instrumental in leading the process of bringing together the opposition parties, and Layton's leadership credentials have been enhanced. Additionally, if a coalition is able to hold together, a number of dippers will have gained valuable cabinet experience, making them a more credible choice to govern in the future.

The big IF involved is can the Liberal party coalesce behind Stephane Dion, or failing that, find another interim leader acceptable to all leadership factions. Splits within the Liberal Party are the most likely cause if the effort to form a workable coalition fails.

[updated Mon Dec 01 12:06:37 EST 2008]

Six weeks ago, a general election returned the CPC to a greater mandate. The NDP+ BLOC negotiated a secret agenda prior to any economic update or the political welfare cut.

They all supported the throne speech. The real reason the opposition freaked was the "political party welfare cut" woke up the Liberals. Canadians don't support these parties and without welfare they know they are doomed.

Why not pull the plug and create a crisis or a coup, what do they have to lose? It was never about Canadians, stimulus, job, pensions. It was only about power and money.

The numbers of the Liberal and NDP are short of a majority. The deal with the BLOC to gain power will result in a complete betrayal of democracy.

The rules allow this power grab to take place, but the GG can send a clear message to the MP's the public spoke and your back room deals and this coup was not the result Canadians voted 6 weeks ago. A new general election with the "new coalition" vs the CPC is the fairest way to determine the intent of the voters.

The leaders of the opposition should immediately call for a convention and unite their parties to offer Canadians a clear alternative with clear policies.

Anything short of that and the voters will destroy the opposition when they have the first opportunity to vote.

This is not an oligarchy, this is a democratic country, shame on thetjugs, fascists in the opposition trying to steal the intent of the election.

[updated Mon Dec 01 12:50:00 EST 2008]

Nik, I would suggest the opposition has no interest in cooperating in the 39th or 40th agenda and needed an issue to unite all the parties.

The NDP+BLOC were already in agreement to defeat every motion, they needed the Liberals to play along.

Now the Liberals have an opportunity to govern and spend $ 30 Billion for their friends in Quebec, CAW and special interest they can not refuse the "low hanging fruit".

The question remains how many MP's of the Liberals/NDP/Bloc will attach themselves to this coalition.

I suspect we need 12 no shows to keep the status quo. I can't imagine all the wonderful calls to each MP over the thought of a new election in 6 months.

Why are the opposition leaders hiding from the media in explaining the Billions promised and the payoff to Quebec?

If they have the deal already where at the details?

[updated Mon Dec 01 13:20:17 EST 2008]

God we could have a Fool as Prime Minister, Dion the biggest joke in Canada. Campbell file for seperation now!

[updated Mon Dec 01 13:51:42 EST 2008]

Harper you have the power, Fire the Governor General and Eliminate the Senate now, Do it now, We do not want a Clown Fool running the country who was not elected.

[updated Mon Dec 01 13:56:54 EST 2008]

I do think, Nik, that we won't kow to what extent Harper has 'poisoned the well' until this all plays out.

It could well be this is all just a giant power play, and the opposition won't push this past the brink. But we won't know until next week when the actual votes happen.

Harper's not going to back down on the economic stimulus package. He think a giant bailout would be bad public policy, and thus bad for Canada, so he won't do it. The opposition might just be trying to force his hand and they want to see how far they can push it.

What Harper did do was motivate the Liberals by threatening to take away their funding. While it looks like the Bloc would be more badly hurt by the funding cut, the Liberals do have a very large debt to finance, and they NEED that government money. The Bloc could probably get by without it.

Given that, I suspect the Liberals will expedite their leadership selection, thus saving themselves a bunch of cash, and looking (as they do right now) far more effective than they did during the entire 39th parliament.

In the short term, this does seem to have breathed life into the Liberal Party, but I'm not yet confident that all the bluster we've heard from across the aisle is anything more than that.

[updated Mon Dec 01 14:08:57 EST 2008]

Harper fire the Governor General you have the power, What we have here is Western Ailination over again. The Liberals and NDP have cooked there goose in BC, We will make sure they never have a seat again in this Province! We do not want a Fool and Clown Prince in Dion. as Prime Minister. Just look at him now in Parliament 11:20 am on CBC Newworld, what a joke he is Dion.

[updated Mon Dec 01 14:21:42 EST 2008]

Liberals cannot stand not being in power, just look at the greed on Bob Rae's face on CBC Newsworld at 12:33 pm pacific, And he bankrupt Ontario, what fools we have in Eastern Canada, Also no bail out for auto industry, if you want to sell cars finance your own sales dealers, not the Banks, there is no shortage of consumers. It is the Banks after they received money to ease Credit. These are Liberal Banks.

[updated Mon Dec 01 15:36:15 EST 2008]

Am one of the 62.4% who voted other than CPC - which places me among the majority. Am delighted that the Liberals, NDP and Bloc are working together to form a government which far better represents the electorate; certainly something closer to democratic representation than we have now.

Now if only they'd start the process toward changing our voting system to one of proportional representation!

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:10:05 EST 2008]

That whirring sound is paper shredders being warmed up on the Hill. Our PM, unable to contain his pathological hatred of the opposition, has dug his party a hole that will result in Tory butts occupying the opposition benches.

This is the logical result of ideologues puting narrow partisan advantage ahead of the national interest. The opposition's advice to Harper: 'In the name of God, go.'

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:13:56 EST 2008]

Well here we are all back again - I seem to recall that my position was if Harper won a minority his political life would be short and that the economy would get him.

Did Harper ever use the Bloc to bolster his last minority????

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:14:30 EST 2008]

I am absolutely delighted with this turn of events. I remember discussing the possibility of a functional coalition with my dentist while on my back a week or so before the election. He did have me at a disadvantage at that point and I doubt either of us thought it a likely possibility. But, in retrospect, the failure of the Tories to get a majority even with the sliming ad campaigns meant to prepare the battlefield well in advance signaled the presence of an firm ceiling blocking the Tory/Reformers' majority ambitions. Since I believe it is the GG who prorogues and not the PM, I now doubt this little drama will drag on too long. A new progressive government looks more and more like a certainty and I could not be happier. I am tired of being embarrassed by Stephen Harper and his motley crew. And I bet you the crew turns on Mr. Harper with alarming vitality. Maybe Dinosaur Day also has a future as leader of the opposition too. What a strange country we live in. What a delightful Christmas present for me and my Reformer-type neighbours in the Fraser Valley. Their misery will be unbounded. Their anger and self-loathing will be a terrible thing to see.

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:22:46 EST 2008]

Quite honestly, the Conservative rhetoric likening this to an undemocratic coup, is quite ridiculous, as much as Harper will crow about a strengthened mandate, he doesn't have a majority in the house, he doesn't have a majority in popular vote, and he has made an issue of small party funding among other things into fiscal issues; which categorically they are not. How is an item which is quite important to insuring small part representation, and that is worth less then 30 Million dollars somehow a prudent target for spending reduction? Quite like the Court Challenges program valued under 5 million dollars (yet crucial to minority rights protection, and a progressive application of charter principles), this represents not fiscal prudence, but ideological bullying.

AS mentioned above the CPC does not have a majority, and as such Harper has severely misplayed his cards here. He is acting as if he has a strong majority within the house, when in fact a united opposition does have a majority. I for one am fully onside with the Liberals regaining a backbone, and the 'strong leadership' of Stephen Harper being exposed for what it truly was; the NDP and Bloc forcing the Liberals to abstain or force an election.

This time around however Dion is already gone, and so what does he or the party in general have to lose? There were many in the party, and supporters of the same that had a hard time stomaching the policy of playing nice. This time however, the gloves are off and Harper has served to temporarily (at least) unite the left-center against him. What a dumb move at a time that calls for good government, not Part Deux in the grinding of the Conservatives Ideological axe.

My main fear here, is that the Conservatives will carpet bomb the airwaves, radio stations, and newspapers with their more then adequate funds. Funds that the other parties do not have a hope of matching. Worse still, is that much like the ad blitzes pre-writ drop this past election, not a cent will count towards any sort of campaign financing limit, and more then likely some of it will be covered with tax payer money for MP mailings (like last election). Move over soft money, here comes non-temporally delineated money that can crush an opponent before one chooses when and where to drop the writ.

Bottom Line: As Harper whined to those who would listen on a Friday in Ottawa, the Election just happened, and the people of Canada have spoken. Correct, they gave the opposition parties a majority in both popular vote, and seat count. If the opposition forms a coalition, by any math; A majority in the house beats a minority, 60%+ of the popular vote beats less then 40%. It may be contra convention to allow a fractured opposition to form a government, yet it is not illegal, nor undemocratic. Elected members will represent their ridings, those with a majority in the house will form government. Any rhetoric to the contrary, defines exactly what Mr. Harper and the Conservative Party has become; bullies, arrogant, and feeling entitled. Quite what we dumped the Liberals over.

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:36:27 EST 2008]

The gloves are off, Nik, We will not respect anyone on this website that supports a Coalition Government, Harper must fire the Governor General who was appointed by the Liberal Paul Martin and replace her with someone who will say nonsense, go back to Canadians and do another Vote and keep Voting until a solid majority or solid minority, The Bloq are actually to blame for this mess, if they were not in Parliament we would not have this mess. Quebec once again is the trouble maker in this country.

[updated Mon Dec 01 16:37:53 EST 2008]

Honestly, how long does anyone think that this will last? I give it until the end of Jan 09 tops and I am only being generous because of the Xmas break in the House.

The Grits and Bloc hate each other and the NDP and Grits intensely mistrust each other. Not to mention the turmoil it has already caused within all three parties. The latest revelations about Jack and Gilles’ conspiracy to over throw the govt and that Dion will indeed lead the revolt will only intensify that angst. They can only survive by acceding to the Bloc’s demands as they will hold all the cards with nothing to lose and everything to gain. That said I hope that it happens, I agree with Iggy that it will be a complete disaster. I see that they have just announced that the economy will be handed over to four unelected former politicians. Good start, this should win the voters over. Not that they have any say in it of course. Not to worry neither will the opposition or their unelected cabal of financial geniuses because now the separatists will have “significant influence at the cabinet table” and the deciding votes in the House. In other words, total control over the Parliament.

Once they fail the country and it does all fall apart as it must, the Tories will be well positioned to sweep into power with a majority for many years to come. So in the short term this is bad for Canada but will be all for the best in the long term. I just hope that GG does not screw things up by not giving the coalition a mandate. That would be extremely unfair and biased against the Tories.

So go Jack and Gilles, get up that hill but don’t forget Stephan and all the other clowns,

We Tories will all be here when you come tumbling down and break your traitorous crowns,

Then we’ll step in fix the country with a real and proper plan,

And Jack and Gilles will be in retirement along with the hapless Stephan.

[updated Mon Dec 01 17:04:01 EST 2008]

I honestly believe the only way for the CPC to recover from this is to replace Harper with a more moderate and agreeable leader. Someone who can build a real consensus amongst the parties and gain their respect. All this exercise has shown is how bullying doesn't build a stable minority government. If Canadians saw Harper that way they would have given him a majority during either one of the last two elections. With the opposition in complete disarray now is the time to instal a new leader. With the right person there is no way they can lose the next election. Keep Harper though and it's going to be the same result all over again.

[updated Mon Dec 01 17:15:21 EST 2008]

Has anyone seen or heard from the GG. While she is yuking it up with her rich bourgeois friends in France this country is in crisis. Apparently she will not return until the 6th Dec. I guess the taxpayer funded champagne parties she is throwing for her European elitist friends is far more important than we lowly citizens. After all she is not in crisis as long as the champagne and tax dollars keep flowing that is.

The least that she could do is announce that she will support the coalition by giving them a mandate to govern. That would be bad for the markets but good news for the Tories.

[updated Mon Dec 01 17:18:21 EST 2008]

I do not know about your Province, but if this Coalition goes ahead the Liberals and the NDP are finished in British Columbia!

[updated Mon Dec 01 17:23:38 EST 2008]

I forgot to mention there will be no bail out of the Auto Industry either. There is no shortage of Consumers to buy Automobiles. The Dealers will simply have to do their own financing and ease credit to Consumers. The Banks are not doing this, so Dealers will lose and will not retain even old customers. The Banks are as much as the problem as the NDP and Liberals are in this country. Want to sell you cars in the showroom, No problem finance them yourselvers Dealers you not getting any help from Government, the CAW got greedy and the price of cars went out of site. Go sell you own!

[updated Mon Dec 01 17:47:30 EST 2008]

Western Canada has been poked in the eye, again, by an unholy eastern dominated coalition. The western provinces will have almost zero representation if this is approved by the GG, a former CBC reporter. A very sad day for Canadian democracy.

[updated Mon Dec 01 18:01:36 EST 2008]

Among the various and myriad astonishing revelations of the last few days has been the depressing but obvious fact that an awful lot of people have a very superficial understanding of our parliamentary system. A number of points bear repeating.

First, nobody in Canada votes for a "government" in any practical sense. We each vote for a Member of Parliament to represent our constituency. The head of state (QE 2 at the moment) or her representative (the GG) asks the leader of one of the parties to form a government. When one party has a majority, they get the nod. When none has a majority, the convention is that the party with the largest caucus gets first crack. Regardless, any government continues to govern only as long as they retain the confidence of Parliament. If that confidence is lost through a defeat on a matter of confidence, the GG has a couple of options. One is to ask other parties to put together a government that can demonstrate the confidence of the House of Commons. Given the fact that the country just went to the polls in October, it is unlikely that she would dissolve parliament and call new elections if another party comes forward with an agreement to govern with a majority of votes, regardless of how many parties the votes are drawn from.

Mr. Harper has not only lost the confidence of the House of Commons, he has done it in a manner that speaks to a partisan nature that precludes cooperation with those who do not share his ideology. There was no need for any of the measures he announced so provocatively in what was supposed to be an economic update. He could have followed on his Throne Speech with an update that showed a clear desire to build a unified Parliament to confront the golobal economic crisis. Instead he turned it into an ideological declaration and a dare.

Well the dare has been called, and so far Mr. harper is the only one to blink. Nik not only has it right when he says that Mr. harper has poisoned the well, he understates the case. Barring a miracle, Mr. Harper has just destroyed his leadership. Some of the angriest voices asking what he thought he was doing are from within his own party.

I expect that there will be no vote on the 8th. I expect Mr. Harper will prorogue Parliament and call it back to hear the budget in January. It would be an extrtaordinary action, given that he has not held a vote on his economic update, and it will all but seal his demise as leader, but it appears at this point to be the only thing that will buy his party the time they need to figure something - anything - out that will keep them in power.

Much of what is being said by Mr. Harper's supporters is not only incorrect and poorly informed on the law and the Constitution, it is irresponsible. It is one thing to be passionate in supporting a political view, it is another to express open contempt for our system of laws and the constitutional order. If Mr. Harper has any qualities as a leader whatsoever, he will read some of what is being said in his name and understand the need for him to turn down the heat.

The process that is unfolding is unprecedented in this country, but in the global world of Parliamentary democracies it is rather common. It is anticipated in our legal system and our Parliamentary conventions. It will play out as it will. In the meantime, some of the language that is circulating in the commentary on these developments is more than a little worrisome.

[updated Mon Dec 01 18:50:42 EST 2008]

Your article fails to analyze the tape of Jack Layton, which he makes clear this coalition was in the works long before the fiscal update. The plan was to wait for an opening and strike, it happened to be the fiscal update but it’s pretty clear to me they would have found something else if this didn’t happen. If you’re for this coalition fine but at least be honest about it. The NDP and Block had no intention of working with the government they planned a take over from the very beginning. All they needed was something to get the Liberals on board and an excuse.

[updated Mon Dec 01 18:58:44 EST 2008]

It would be better if there is a election.To have the Country Governed by a coalition of Liberals,NDP and propped up by separatists is very unpalatable. It seems, to listen to the 3 leaders when they signed an agreement for the next 18 months, that Jack Layton has capitulated completely.The points he tried to wrangle from PM Harper he also does not get from Dion.So what gain? The Bloc's Duceppe is the most untrustworthy, he agreed to prop up this essential Liberal Govt. as proposed, but he will change his mind in a heartbeat, if he does not get what he wants.
As for Dion, he may be a decent person, but he will rule with an iron fist and will not consult with anyone who is not Liberal,even if they are Liberal.

[updated Mon Dec 01 19:10:26 EST 2008]

What???

How is it possible that the 65% who voted in Liberals, NDP and the BLOQ's in the last general elections support Harper?? according to polls posted today?? that is not possible and most Canadian can see those polls mischief... that is impossible..

I do not believe you... Canadians went to the polls and voted for their legitimate parties which combined the opposition hold a bigger % and that means 65% of Canadian are agreeable to the Coalition government in support of their elected Members of parliament stand..it doesn't take science to figure that out....

For the 65% Canadians looking at the other independent polls show that they are in support of the Coalition between Liberal, NDP and the BLOQ hands down...
even that the Harper government can't dispute even if they tried hard...
Conservative government is a minority and they should have known that.. the fact that they thought that the Liberals had no game plan and that they were too week to stop their agenda or that the other parties were more interested in the economy than petty politics has brought their down fall... they are on their way out of Sussex drive and they should accept that gracefully because 65% of Canadians have decided on a coalition government to govern them out of this murky waters called the wild Economy meltdown...

65% is majority not Harper's 35%... Harper and his conservatives should wake up to reality.65% of Canadians have spoken through the MP`s they voted to be their voices in Parliament ... period!

[updated Mon Dec 01 19:28:58 EST 2008]

I don't see where harper poisoned the well. Rather, it's the NDP, Liberals and Bloc who have defecated in their own nests. Of course no one would expect the Bloc to support anything that's good for Canada. Therefore they will be happy to prop up the NDP and Liberals, providing the price is right.

I'm sure that the Liberals and the NDP wouldn't dare go to the voters on this issue. Harper has not proposed anything that doesn't make good sense. I was opposed to the handout of taxpayers' money to political parties when the Liberals instituted it. Of course in those days the Libs were the major benefactors (and I was a Liberal supporter).

If the Liberals and NDP persist in this madness it could precipitate a Constitutional Crisis and give a very strong impetus to Western Separatism.

We've had an election. Rightly or wrongly, Harper's CPC won the right to govern. Neither the Three Stooges, nor the Governor General has the moral right to overthrow the results of the election.

I wonder if a march on Ottawa isn't called for to stop this Banana Republic style coup from succeeding.

[updated Mon Dec 01 20:02:50 EST 2008]

Today's 10% drop in the TSX doesn't say a lot of good things about what the market thinks of this coalition idea.

Socialism is bad for business. Business has known this for a very long time. And business is what produces everything we use and pays us all our wages (either directly or indirectly).

[updated Mon Dec 01 20:06:24 EST 2008]

To say I am ticked with Mr. Harper would be an understatement. Anybody who follows my postings knows that I am a Conservative supporter but to do what Harper did in the economic statement is beyond belief.

There is no question the withdrawal of political financing would have meant a significant financial blow to all the parties including his own but for what benefit. To bankrupt or significiantly hurt the opposition parties? Anybody in their right minds would see that this would be waving a red flag at the bulls and forcing the opposition parties to protect themselves and take the drastic action that seems about to unfold.

Harper said we are facing a significant economic crisis and his only focus would be the economy and then to plant stink bombs in the economic statement is beyond stupidity. We really need to wonder what his true motivations are all about.

Having said this the opposition parties are being reckless with the future of the country. This is an unholy alliance. The coalition is not made up of just the official opposition party and the NDP it requires the support of the Bloc on every piece of legislation proposed. In other words the country is going to be held hostage by the Separatists. If it is not good for Quebec then Duceppe will not support it. The Libs are so desperate for power they will agree to anything to stay in power.

Canadians clearly have rejected the NDP as any type of government in waiting with their socialist brand of politics. To thnk these yahoos could have their hands on the levers of power particularly in economic portfolios is beyond imagination.

It would appear the only thing between Harper and defeat is the Governor General. While constitutionally she can agree to the coalition government she needs to bear in mind that for the government to be stable it requires the support of all three opposition parties. To require the support of a Separatist party cannot be in the best interest of the whole country?

I still don't think the majority of Canadians understand what is happening. The opposition parties are trying to obtain indirectly what they could not get directly through an election;power. It is a legal coup d' etat and it makes Canada seem like a banana republic.

As Nik says the Liberals and to a lesser extent the NDP are going to be punished when Canadians next go to the polls.

The Governor General needs to dissolve parliament and call an election. It is the people of Canada who should decide who they want to be the government not politicans sitting in the backrooms plotting as it appears Layton and Duceppe have been doing for some time.

Given Harper and his government are Conservatives they have no natural allies in the House and so if it was not this issue it would have been another.

[updated Mon Dec 01 20:12:38 EST 2008]

I would support a continuation of this government if Harper resigned his office and his seat in parliament. Otherwise the coalition is the lesser of two evils.

With that option we would see new leaders of both major parties and layton should also get the message. Duceppe wants out, in my he opinion wants to disassemble the bloc, and will be gone b/f the next election and this will give the whole country a chance to look at new ideas from fresh faces in all parties.

So harper could be the great saviour of our current system if he leaves and leaves now

[updated Mon Dec 01 21:19:03 EST 2008]

Stephan Dion-Born in Paris, Citizen of France, Leader of the Coalition for Canada, Lowest vote in Liberal history.

Jack Laton-Born in Monteal, Used car saleman, Cabnet Minister of the Coalition for Canada, Socialist.

Gilles Duceppe-Born in Montreal, Seperatist, Veto power of the Coalition for Canada, President of the Republic of Quebec.

Need I write more.

[updated Mon Dec 01 21:19:35 EST 2008]

Hey Nik

Our politicians are as unstable as the economy. The lot of them. Political gain has been put ahead of keeping our country level in a time of huge economic turmoil.

I've heard that people get the government they deserve and maybe in some cases that is true. Not this one. Canadians deserve better.

The solution, I'd rather have another election than hand over power to people who only six weeks ago were arch enemies.

[updated Mon Dec 01 21:54:21 EST 2008]

Hello Nik

Did Prime Minister Harper over play his hand?

Did you see the barely-concealed smile on M. Duceppe's face when he signed the document tonight? If things go as planned for the coalition coup leaders, Duceppe will be the real winner as he has proved that he can effectively get what he wants for Quebec and the Bloq Party is a legitimate player in the Canadian political scene. He will also prove that an independant Quebec can work with Canada towards common goals. If things do not work out, he will have proved that no matter what Quebecers do (even guaranteeing them full support until June 2010) the rest of Canada cannot be trusted. This is a clear win for the Separatist movement.

But Mr. Layton is also a winner because, at long last, his Party is in Government. The NDP is no longer a fringe party. Who would have thunk it! Can the Greens be far behind?

And how about Mr. Dion. Despite having his economic policies massively rejected by the Canadian electorate and by his own party, he is actually going to get a kick at the can. He will go down, in the history books, as a Canadian Prime Minister and along with Layton as the leader of the only bloodless North American coup.

All this, despite the usual political denials by the opposition leaders, is due to Prime Minister Harper's attempt to cancel the financial funding for political parties. Nobody really believes otherwise.

The Conservatives might lose an opportunity to go down in the history books as the Party that persevered and improved Canadians job security, their savings and their financial future during a serious world-wide economic downturn.

Did Prime Minister Harper overplay his hand? Yup. But then so did the Liberals. Their incredible frustration over the upstart Conservatives winning another election and denying the Liberals their rightful heritage as rulers of this country, has prompted a very dangerous, legal or not, political coup. They have opened up a Pandora's box of future political instability for all future Canadian governments. Shades of 'Proportional Representation'.

[updated Mon Dec 01 22:59:44 EST 2008]

Kudos To Harper
I think the conservatives are doing the right thing. My wages have been frozen since last June and for the last six weeks I've had my hours cut back.
Whats wrong with everyone getting a little less to help us all survive.
The opposition parties should welcome the prudent measures of the Conservatives instead of trying to upsurt them at every turn.
From what I have read the rest of the world wishes it could be in as good a position as Canada is with strong leadership and not trying to spend our way out of this mess as Bob Rae did in Ontario not that long ago. Lonecrow

[updated Mon Dec 01 23:48:43 EST 2008]

FOR THOSE THAT STILL DO NOT GET THE MESSAGE: NO TO A COALITION GOVERNMENT!

[updated Tue Dec 02 00:54:23 EST 2008]

Those in the West will withold their Taxes from Ottawa and make a real mess of this Coalition government if it takes place.

[updated Tue Dec 02 00:59:41 EST 2008]

Nik. Once again one cannot find fault with your comments on our present situation. By the necessity of neutrality of your position you are required to be reserved in your expression. We in this forum have the luxury of no such restraints. We can be as outspoken, passionate and sometimes as obnoxious as our sense of integrity (or your rules) allows. :-)

We all know what happened, so to answer your question what will happen, we can only offer idle speculation. None of us knows. There are too many unforeseen occurances and each can lead to unsuspecting consequences. It's a maze that only can be navigated with luck. For the frivolity of 'playing the game' I will venture forth.

The ball is in Harper's court now. What happens next depends on his decisions. And knowing his penchant for making wrong ones I have little faith in him doing what's right.
He has already refused to test Parliament's confidence in himself or his party. In delaying that for a week he hopes that something will come up that may save him. Since that is unlikely next Monday he will be forced into another decision. I think he will ask the Governor General to prorogue Parliament. Since I don't see any reason for her to refuse, that will happen. In the interval, in desperation Harper will be praying for someone, somewhere, somehow will throw him a lifeline, and last straw that he may grasp on to. I don't think that there will be one. Soon after, when parliament reconvenes in January , there will be a vote in the House and Harper's party will be defeated. Harper will go to the GG and asked for Parliament to be dissolved, since he has not the power of dissolution. The GG will decline and ask another group if they have the confidence of Parliament. The coalition will say yes, and so form the new government.

In the meantime I will sit here with baited breath and see how wrong I will be. Then I'll be able to decide if my prognosis was acute thought processing or wishful thinking. if the latter I am sure I will be duly notified by others in this forum. :-)

[updated Tue Dec 02 06:41:21 EST 2008]

I twice repeated a response to one of the posters here. It was a mistake, sorry.

[updated Tue Dec 02 08:02:13 EST 2008]

Why does the "coalition" fear going to the polls?

A) The 300 million?

B) The wrath of the voters?

C) Elections results won't be respected again?

D) All of the above.

[updated Tue Dec 02 09:34:26 EST 2008]

I think Prime Minister Harper has succumbed to megalomania. I am just now rereading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer. Even if we discount Shirer's biased views, it is apparent from his account that, much earlier than most people imagined, Hitler was already suffering from this same ailment. His conduct becomes more and more bizarre, even while the war that he has fomented is still going very well for him. I see a parallel between our Prime Minister's conduct today and Hitler's in 1939 and 1940: An apparent belief, upon which he is quite willing to act, that power of will and arrogance can overcome all opposition. It is clear that the reaction, both in Parliament and across the country, to Finance Minister Flaherty's so-called economic statement last Thursday has taken Harper and his cronies completely by surprise. More than they probably intended, their intention to convert this country into a Fascist theocracy has become glaringly obvious.

[updated Tue Dec 02 10:15:20 EST 2008]

Hey Nik, I think Harper new the coalition was going to happen, Harper new the Conservative government was history no matter what the Economic speach had in it. Harper knew the coalition only had a short window of opportunity for the GG make them government with out an election. Everything that Harper and the CPC have done in the last while is just preps for the upcomming election. Whether the election comes in 2009 or 2011. Why give up when you can get all this free publlicity. Harper may make mistakes, but I don't think he is stupid.

[updated Tue Dec 02 11:02:24 EST 2008]

Hi Nik
The Bloc, like the NDP and the Liberals believe they are fighting for their political survival. The economic update tabled by Jim Flaherty, did nothing to address the economic situation, instead it continued Harpers attack on Canadian institutions.
Instead of acting as a minority government should and seeking a consensus on how best to address the economic crisis we are facing; Stephen Harper tried to administer the ‘’Coup de Grâce’’ to his political opponents. Subsidies to political parties were introduced to the Canadian political system to reduce the influence of special interest groups contributing to political parties and having undue influence on our elected representatives.
The conservatives must allow democracy to take its course, allow the vote on December the 8th and live with the results. Proroguing parliament will only increase the instability of the country. Harper has brought this on to himself. What is happening now in Ottawa is a direct result of Stephan Harpers management skills.

[updated Tue Dec 02 13:07:57 EST 2008]

You all must realize that this is a battle between East and West, You know that Right, the Conservatives ( The Good) from the West and Liberals and NDP( The Bad) from the East. The only advantage you have is population but you lack brain power. That is why the West will continue to out perform the East. We have more than just Oil my friends and foes. Central Canada, Quebec will continue to flounder with no way out. You sent your businesses to the Devil, China the Evil Empire (The Anti-China Foundation) is currently looking for members you should join to save yourself, while I play golf 7 days a week. Retired Investment Advisor the Contrian who does not follow the Sheephereder (That is why we have money honey)

[updated Tue Dec 02 14:03:07 EST 2008]

Ontario and Quebec are not capable even with the Population advantage of doing anything on their own like Alberta did after being screwed by Trudeau,Chretien, and Marc Lalonde with the National Energy Program, Your simple not capable your Politicians like John MacCullum lack brain power. Did you actually think we would forget about this fact.

Polticians learn this fact, Voters never forget. Chretien and Axworthy still have to be held accountable and brought to Justice just for one APEC which most of you in the East know nothing about. This only one of many for Chretien. Harper has not!

[updated Tue Dec 02 14:10:25 EST 2008]

Andrew Steele of the Globe and Mail says Harper's Options are replacing the Governor General, if a Governor General is Appointed by a Liberal, then she can be Unappointed by a Conservative. Remember she is only a simple CBC reporter at best with limited time in Canada. Is her Husband a parasite on her position, you tell me, you bright ones in Central Canada.

[updated Tue Dec 02 15:00:38 EST 2008]

DION for PM

Serving Canada (MP's FIRST), Serving Democracy (unless we lose the election)

Dear Liberal Friend, (anyone out there? PLEASE send money!)

The best traditions of our parliamentary democracy have been served by yesterday’s historic formation of a proposed alternative government for Canada. Together, opposition parties have found a way to do what may critics had declared impossible – make Parliament work.

(Yes we can take power and ignore the election result when we lose)

But we need your help right now, in to deliver the action Canada so desperately needs. Canada’s Governor General, Michaelle Jean, needs to hear from you.

By electing three consecutive minority governments, Canadians have, in essence, been saying to politicians, “find a way to work together.” And since Harper Conservatives have steadfastly refused to do so, the other parties have stepped up to the plate.

(To direct billions to our coalition friends. Dear Union Members, auto dealers, rich seniors who lost million over the income trusts)

Next Monday, MPs will formalise with a vote what is already clear to all – that Stephen Harper’s Conservative government has lost the confidence of Parliament and Canadians.

(Truthfully only the house, actually had the deal before the election was over...sssshh! We can't afford to go to the polls we both know DION is a not a leader.)

Then the Governor General will decide whether to force another election on the country, as Stephen Harper would have her do, or honour our parliamentary traditions and give the alternative government an opportunity to serve the country.

(By all means we need to serve without a general election, we know we can't win)

Please write to the Governor General today and tell her you support the alternative government. We cannot let this historic initiative fail due to the silence of the majority – make your views known!

Now is the time for real action on the economy, not another $300 million election. A Liberal-NDP government, which would have the full support of the Bloc Quebecois and the Green Party of Canada, is the truest reflection of the will of voters and the best solution for the good government Canada needs.

(Please don't let us go to the polls, it will be the end of us and those yellow stuffed envelopes we have already ordered)

(PST. We have lots of Senator vacancies we can fill, for donations ....)

Yours sincerely,

Greg Fergus
National Director, Liberal Party of Canada

PS. The Conservatives have launched a massive public relations campaign to push for another election and swing support towards their divisive and narrow point of view. We must counter this effectively. If you are in a position to make a donation, please do. Your support will make an important difference at this critical time.

Authorized by the Federal Liberal Agency of Canada, registered agent for the Liberal Party of Canada

[updated Tue Dec 02 18:38:19 EST 2008]

God Bless the "SEPARATIST COALITION"!

And may they, with God's infinite wisdom, succeed in separating this country from the government of Stephen Harper, at the earliest possible opportunity.

[updated Tue Dec 02 19:37:02 EST 2008]

Nick:

Here is the true scenario, leastwise as I can see it.

Harper knows full well how desperate the finances are but he cannot really reveal it, lest he and Flaherty be made to look like like what they really are, inept and conniving, so he issues an economic update designed to raise the indignation of the opposition parties. The calculated risk was that they would have yelled foul and threaten this that and the other, to which he would have suspended the government and called for yet another election. The reason for the election would have been, quite ostensibly, the financing of the parties, itself a no-go from step one. Ergo, he would have finally gotten a majority in the House.

The miscalculation occurred when he forgot that just as he amalgamated the PC and Alliance a few years back, so the Libs and NDP decided to do likewise – not only, but they even have the support and respect of the Bloc. Bad error!. Bad judgement! Poor, oh so poor understanding of human nature. Remember the motto, Always give your enemy gif at least one escape route.

Well, what do you know? New government – and BTW, NO, Dion does not need a Liberal majority to become the next PM as the PM, in the Westminster parliamentary system is elected by his peers, 64% of whom have confidence in his ability to lead untill May 2, 2009 – will take over and hopefully embark on a better route to leading us through the crisis the Yankee Neocons have plunged the world into.

[updated Tue Dec 02 20:01:35 EST 2008]

Stephen Harper has disgraced the office of Prime Minister, brought great shame to the traditions on which our Parliamentary form of government is based, and now threatens Parliament itself. Our system has served us well through far better and far worse PM's than him. What Harper is doing is a greater threat to our economy and our country than anything Gilles Duceppe is capable of. He's assaulting our system of governance itself. He'd prefer to shape public opinion through media manipulation instead of addressing the failing economy and the political reality. Harper is worrying more about saving his job through advertising campaigns, pre-programmed messaging for call-in shows, and "spontaneous" demonstrations reminiscent of Richard Nixon's fated tenure in the White House. Harper should be a man, face the confidence motion and if he loses, resign. All this Sturm und Drang might be good red meat for the base but it has the whiff of extreme desperation about it. It's unseemly and only fanned the flames of western alienation. We don't need to spend another $300 million dollars on an election to know it's time for him to go. There's no shortage of places that election money could be better spent, NOW, not in another 90 days. Harper is not a uniter, he's a divider and has no capacity to change his ways. All he knows is the basest form of politics: appeal to the lowest denominator. It's disgusting.

[updated Tue Dec 02 21:01:30 EST 2008]

Playing The Bloc Card - Round Two.

We can all recall what happened when the Conservatives played the Bloc card last time. Who can forget the sight of Jacques Gourde showing up in Montreal with the anti-Bloc truck. We saw what that clumsly attempt did to the campaign of Michael Fortier -- not to mention the other CPC candidates on both sides of the Saint-Lawrence river around Montreal.

In Round Two, Harper has chosen to go further and demonize the Bloc. He will discover, much to his chagrin, that this is a losing electoral strategy in Quebec. Watch for a massive backlash, during the next election, with the CPC losing all of its seats in the province.

[updated Tue Dec 02 21:08:27 EST 2008]

I am astounded as I read through the threads here at SES forums. This is perhaps the most right wing collection of postings I have ever encountered on a discussion board. It would be a fascinating thing to study to see why it is that so much of the lunatic fringe is drawn to such forums.

SES is actually a really impartial pollster doing top notch work, and CPAC is great, but for some reason the crazies tend to congregate on this discussion forum.

[updated Tue Dec 02 22:44:21 EST 2008]

Nik, I don't believe that the leaders of the proposed coalition are playing politics. The only one playing hard politics is the PM. He promised a more consensual administration, including consultation with the opposition parties. Within a week of a new Parliament session, he was fully back to his old self, assessing weakness in the Liberal party and trying to take political advantage. That was the first move that demonstrated poor judgment. Now, fighting for his political life, he is going into an even more destructive territory, trying to fan the flames of separatism, not only in Quebec but in the West.
He wants to appear as holding the high ground. However, there are records of his attempt to make deals with what he now calls "the devil". Is that honesty?
The global economic crisis calls for leadership right now. We cannot wait and see. The environmental crisis needs attention as well. The UN Conference began yesterday. Workers are losing their jobs everyday. Does he care? It does not seem to be the case.
Now, The PM's actions have thrown the country into a crisis of governance and he wants to "rescind parliament"? What for? It will only delay the inevitable. In January or March there might be, heaven forbids, an election. The coalition will probably run candidates and gain a majority. In the meantime, we would have been without a government during the worst economic crisis in decades. Will Mr. Harper take the patriotic, honorable road and accept he lost the confidence of Parliament and ask the GG to allow the coalition to form government.

[updated Tue Dec 02 22:44:37 EST 2008]

Attention: Conservative Parliamentary Caucus!

Good news! We finally know now what the caucus can get the Prime Minister for Christmas. I know how members have been racking their brains to think of that ever so perfect holiday gift for our PM -- aren't we fortunate that Harper has provided the clue himself: how about a spanking new pair of contact lenses or eyeglasses so Stephen Harper can see all those Canadian flags that have quite suddenly and unexpectedly become invisible to him...that way we won't have to wave any of those red flags in front of the Harper bull.

[updated Tue Dec 02 22:48:21 EST 2008]

The tide has come and who to blame for forgetting that Canadian voted for a Minority government in the last elections after calling for the elections prematurely?? Steven Harper and the conservatives. Canadians wanted all parties to work together for the sake of Canadians and refused to give one party a majority and now the same conservative party was trying to gag and destroy the opposition parties a right for fair democratic balanced voice in the house of commons.

The opposition parties have a right to form a coalition and that right is stipulated in constitution of which states that if a minority party loses the confidence of the house of commons then it has no business running the government affairs.
Now the Harper conservatives have come out playing dirty politics as usual and this time round they will not prevail - the buck stops with Harper and he should not blame anyone for his blander - It is embarrassing to watch him on national media screaming foul when he himself created the mess the country is in now.

The coalition is the best for Canada now, Stephen Harper and the conservatives had their chance to work together with the opposition across party lines for the serious economic issues Canada is facing now i.e unemployment e.t.c and they Blew it big time.

[updated Wed Dec 03 00:42:06 EST 2008]

TIME OUT FOR HARPER'S CONSERVATIVE PARTY

No Harper Conservative government... No !no!no! Canadians have spoken and Harper should step down gracefully or else he should be man enough to allow the opposition to put forward a vote of no confidence in the house and see whether he can survive. why is Harper hiding behind the so called separatist card?? Didn't I see a document signed by him and the same separatists or was i dreaming??? enough of this nonsense - Canadians deserve to see democracy in play here- meaning the vote of no confidence should be put forward in the house of commons tomorrow without delay!!

THE OPPOSITION HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO FORM A COALITION TO GOVERN -

where did Harper get the idea that they have no right?? can someone tell me? this is true hogwash Harper conservative politics and Canadians should not accept.

[updated Wed Dec 03 01:17:15 EST 2008]

A message to the NDP and Liberals in Ontario and Quebec, you did not watch the CBC Newsworld around 9 PM Pacific. Apparently the people of Alberta are so mad at this Coalition of the NDP and Liberals, A historic number of phone calls and e-mails have been received by the Seperation Party of Alberta! And best is yet to come. They are planning to cut off all oil and gas lines to Ontario and Quebec, so do not plan to drive your car or fly to floridia for the winter. Your about to find out where the real Power is. The Texans know it, but the stupid Politicians in Quebec and Ontario will find out soon. 85% of the gas and oil used in North American has proven already to come from Alberta. So have a nice warm winter fools. You deserve it.

[updated Wed Dec 03 02:07:58 EST 2008]

Now reading other blogs - Canada is being called a Banana Republic - Questions are being asked about the democratic parliamentary system of Canadian compared to the third world countries.
Refusal of presidents to leave office after loosing a non-confidence vote or elections in this countries has been condemned with Canada being one of the front runners.

so how can we as Canadians pride ourselves of being a democratic country when what we are seeing happen is not democratic?? we are the laughing stock on some bloggers from other countries and this really disturbing - the world is watching ( if we are the same people who go preaching in countries like Afghanistan and Zimbabwe Democracy?? how will they ever listen to us when Harper is doing the same thing.here in Canada?? refusing on power when he has no vote of confidence within the House of Commons?? what are we to make of this and how can we point out to the this developing countries that our leader has refused to give democracy a chance?? this is ridiculous...this is indeed very embarrassing. we as Canadians might think it is just within Canada- but it touches the whole world - all eyes are on Canada and i would hate to imagine them watching the debates last question period it was a shameful display- Canada has lost face -

[updated Wed Dec 03 02:59:32 EST 2008]

The bottom line, in fact the only line, is the government is "the government of the most votes in the house".

There has never been in Canada, or in any democratically elected parliament in the world, a government staying in power when most members of the house votes against them.

All Harper has to do is resign and go about vigorously promoting himself and his party to gain a majority of seats in the next election. with this type of coalition that might not be long. The party would do better with a better leader.

The GG should not grant him the right to prorogue Parliament. Prorogation is to be granted near the end of a long session, never at the beginning. And certainly to help a government avoid having a vote . That would be political or at least partisan. And the GG must not be be seen partisan to be either.

[updated Wed Dec 03 11:25:34 EST 2008]

Notice to All:

It is time for you, the Great Unwashed, to prostrate yourselves before the soon to be President for Life and our Great Protector, Stephen Harper. He doesn't like parliamentary procedure, nor Parliament much either for that matter, and he doesn't need them. These past niceties about rules, tradition, and democracy no longer have relevance because The Great One always knows best. After He speaks to you tonight He would be most grateful if you could call, write, demonstrate and otherwise show your support for our Glorious Leader. Warning: Failing to do so will upset the Supreme One. You don't want to do that because we are taking down names. Extremism in the pursuit of absolute power is no vice; It is a virtue. Repeat this out loud 1000 times or until you are hoarse.

[updated Wed Dec 03 14:41:56 EST 2008]

Why has the Prime Minister lost the confidence of the House? What is the coalition's actual complaint with the Prime Minister?

If they didn't think his government was fit to rule, they should have defeated his throne speech. Then the GG would have offered Dion the office of Prime Minister.

But they passed the throne speech. So the parliament voiced their explicit confidence in the Prime Minister's government to govern.

What's changed? Is Harper putting forward a bill that isn't in his throne speech? Has he made some volatile proposal and then stuck to his guns in the face of strong an unified opposition?

No. He's done none of those things. So, I ask again, what has changed between the throne speech and now to cause the House to lose confidence in him? I need a specific event or sequence of events that makes a material difference to how Canada in run. Otherwise this loss of confidence is entirely arbitrary, and probably just opportunistic.

[updated Wed Dec 03 16:40:50 EST 2008]

Americans don't have the votes for the Auto Bailout.

Will GM fail before OBAMA get in?

[updated Wed Dec 03 20:11:40 EST 2008]

Election Seat Projection February 2009
CPC 200
Lib 20
NDP 20
BLOC 68
Green 0

[updated Wed Dec 03 20:23:06 EST 2008]

People in Northern BC have just sent the NDP a message if you do think this is serious, this Coalition is playing with fire, if they do not go back to Canadians for Canadians to decide again. This Martha Hall ? just spouted rubbish and nonsense on the Don Neuman program is that what you grown in Ontario, Rubbish and Nonsense after you sent the good products and industry to China. You designed your own fate under the Town Fool Jean Chretien and Power Corporation dysfunctional investors in China that have not made a single penny to date.

[updated Wed Dec 03 21:05:11 EST 2008]

Although I agree political parties should not be at the public trough, and should canvass their own supporters for funding, prime minister Harper's announcement at the time of the Fall Update, to no longer allow the funding, was very poor timing indeed.

That being said, the opposition had been waiting in the wings for the right trigger to bring down the just re-elected government, and this was their excuse. Jack Layton stated he and Duceppe were in contact for a long time about joining together, how long ago? Was it before the election results were in? If so, would this not be colluding to overturn election results of voters before the results were all in. When did Dion become involved? This is not democracy at it's best, it's the high-jacking of the political process as I see it.

The prime minister had been informing the public of the steps the government have been taking on the economy since the 2007 fall update. When the credit crisis first hit the US, the prime minister made various announcements about the economy and what steps they were taking to ensure our economy remained strong. We were also informed that a stimulus package for various sectors would be coming forward very early in the year, they have on-going consultations with these various sectors. He also met with all provincial leaders twice to discuss how all of them would respond with a stimulus package, and it was agreed they would make their announcements together early in 2009.

Where the opposition members were while these announcements were being made, is anybodies guess.

I believe the governor general will allow the government to delay until late January, 2009. This will give the government time to complete the budget, and, also benefit from the cracks already being felt in the liberal party. The liberals will back out of deal they signed with the Bloc and NDP which will cause the immediate demise of Mr. Dion and his obsession with being prime minister at all costs.

[updated Wed Dec 03 21:52:29 EST 2008]

Just saw the the speeches tonight. Here is a quick review for those who missed it and for those who want a second perspective.

Representing the voice of the government we had Mr. Harper, prime ministerial looking and fireside chat approach, flanked by two Canadian Flags. The picture makes sense, for the Prime Minister but the speech was a bit short.

We need to defend the Canadian democracy and stop the the Separatist-Bloc-Duceppe led Coalition from disrupting a measured approach to our economic crisis. Let's talk and then get back to business! --

I kind of wanted to hear some fire and brimstone. Passion Mr. Harper.

Representing the voice of the Coalition we had Mr. Dion. No offense but he needs a new videographer. His camera really was far too close. Loved the homesy studied-library-on-the-bookshelf look, I checked out his book selection. This is a technique used to define the speaker as learned and thoughtful. The video was a bit blurry. I could only read one of the titles and I am not kidding. Really I am serious, it was a red book titled, 'Hot Air'. Seriously. It said 'Hot Air'..... Did I mention that he really needs a better Videographer?

At any rate, he attacked 'Harper', blaming him for his lack of cooperation and combativeness when he should have been working with the other MP's and creating a stimulus for the economy. This is why he created the Coalition to bring order to stimulating the ecomony. He warned us about what 'Harper' was going to do next and not to be fooled by him. He said 'Harper' was creating a false sense of drama over the Coalition and declared that the Bloc was not part of this coalition despite the Veto. 'Harper' was accused of doing nothing but he was going to consult with everyone (did not include 'Harper') across Canada to get the best ideas together and solve Canada's economic crisis. He had a plan but first he had to stop, 'Harper' on Monday. So he sent a message to the GG not to allow, 'Harper' to prorogue Parliament. He promised everything would be better once they got rid of, you guessed it, 'Harper' and made him 'Dion' Prime Minister. Did anybody count how many times he blamed 'Harper' for everything? Not one word about 'Harper's' proposal to cut the taxpayers funding of the Party finances. This was previously withdrawn by 'Harper'. A surprise as the Liberal Party is in deep financial debt and desperately needs their share of the $30,000,000.00 of Canadian funds based on the votes received.

It was not really a long speech but twice as long as the Prime Minister 'Harper's talk.

Representing the voice of the Coalition we next heard Gilles Duceppe speak.

Good background of four (4) flags, one of them Canada's. This was actually better than even the Prime Minister who only had two and is an improvement over not having a Canadian flag behind him when he signed his approval to the Coalition document. Good classic camera work and composition.

He attacked 'Harper', blaming him for his lack of cooperation and combativeness when he should have been working with the other MP's and creating a stimulus for the economy. This is why he created the Coalition to bring order to stimulating the ecomony. He mentioned that the Bloc had been congratulated by Mr. 'Harper' for being the only Party to submit a list of suggestions to improve the economy. He went on to blame 'Harper' for a number of things and explained that he would soon advise his coalition on what they should do, once they have gotten rid of 'Harper'. People should support his coalition instead of 'Harper' because it would be better for Quebec which is currently part of Canada. -- Not one word about cutting the Party finances that were already withdrawn, which is a surprise as the Bloc does not do public financing and needs the Canadian funds based on the votes received.

Representing the voice of the Coalition we next heard Jack Layton speak.

No flags that I could see but still a great background of cut-glass windows, that I think are in front of the Senate. I could be wrong about the location but it was still great. Best Camera setup of the lot.

He attacked 'Harper', blaming him for his lack of cooperation and combativeness when he should have been working with the other MP's and creating a stimulus for the economy. This is why he created the Coalition to bring order to stimulating the ecomony. Despite what Duceppe said, he indicated that the NDP had give 'Harper' their list of proposals many times both in and out of the House of Commons. He talked about people losing their jobs, and their homes due to 'Harper's intransigence and lack of empathy. 'Harper' was doing nothing and should be kicked out. His coalition would replace 'Harper' with a caring fast action stimulus package. Mr. Layton hinted at 'Harper's' proposal to cut the taxpayers funding of the Party finances. The NDP pride themselves on filling the Party coffers with small $10 donations from their supporters. Bravo.

[updated Wed Dec 03 23:07:55 EST 2008]

The Coalition is failing: All hands on deck!!!!

Guelph's Liberal MP: Focus should be on fixing economy
December 03, 2008
Scott Tracey
GuelphMercury.com

OTTAWA — Frank Valeriote does not favour a coalition government and instead hopes Prime Minister Stephen Harper can work toward rescuing the Canadian economy.

“I believe in working toward a solution, not working toward a coalition,” Guelph’s Liberal MP said Wednesday.

Valeriote added he does not believe a Liberal-NDP coalition, with support from the Bloc Quebecois, will unseat the Tories.

“I have given no thought to that,” Valeriote said when asked whether he saw himself in a cabinet role under such an arrangement. “I am not, frankly, anticipating moving into government.”

Read the full story in tomorrow’s Mercury.

[updated Thu Dec 04 00:25:38 EST 2008]

Since when in the History of Canada has the constitution and the peoples democratic rights through their representatives in the house of commons been ignored to keep a prime minister in power??

anyone is welcome to name dates and which Prime Ministers in the Canadian history!

I rest my case:):

[updated Thu Dec 04 00:28:03 EST 2008]

I hope everyone has let their MP know how they feel. I let mine and 35 others (all parties) know how embarressed I am at our PM. He is nasty, mean, divisive, petty, insensitive to all Canadians and unbecoming as a PM. He has painted all Quebecers as uncanadian separtists. For the good of our great country, Harper must go. He has not only poisoned the well but many who voted for him. He is so bitter at not winning a majority and is lashing out at everyone. We would be better off with a new conservative leader. I have my doubts about the coalition but would vote for Duccette before Harper. If there is another election, I hope this time more people will get out and vote..

I pray the Govenor General makes a good decision. This mean spirited, divisive bully has to go.
Sally

[updated Thu Dec 04 01:14:44 EST 2008]

Canadian Alliance and Bloc Quebecois -- former partners -- allies against all that was evil on Parliament Hill in 2000.

I guess it's a case of do what I say and not what I did...

[updated Thu Dec 04 11:37:48 EST 2008]

An excellent move by the GG.

We now need all parties to sit back and reflect what they actually stand for and what they want to happen at the end of January.

[updated Thu Dec 04 12:19:55 EST 2008]

As expected Dion and Layton come out looking like Supreme Fools, Harper beats them again! So much for the (416) Regional Party Head Quarters for Liberals, Never Win.

[updated Thu Dec 04 13:31:04 EST 2008]

THE 3 FOOLS LOSE AGAIN, WILL THEY EVER LEARN YOU TELL ME!

The next time this happens, laws must be brought in that you do not go to a Governor General, It must be a AUTOMATIC re Vote. GOVERNOR GENERAL must only be used when a term is about to expire or a confidence vote has been Lost. But her answer must be Automatic, Go to Canadians for a Vote.

Now what is so differicult about that. where is GoHabs when you need him, He is crying that he lost again and will continue to be a Loser.

[updated Thu Dec 04 14:50:47 EST 2008]

Reminder: The West Trusts Harper, The West does NOT TRUST Dion or any Liberal leadership Candidates, The West does not Trust any NDP or Liberals MP's in BC that won by the slimest of margins. The WEST Does Not Trust Ontario or Quebec. This is a WAR have you not figured this out.

[updated Thu Dec 04 15:29:24 EST 2008]

OPEN TENDER.

We are a federal political party with headquarters in Ottawa. We are seeking submissions from clinicians who specialize in the treatment of Parliamentary phobia. Symptoms include: a sudden onset of timidity relative to other parliamentarians opposite; acute perspiration, performance anxiety, emotional inadequacy as well as a variety of other symptomatic conditions and illnesses.

Please provide your submission as soon as possible. Group rates would be appreciated and will be preferred upon awarding this tender.

[updated Thu Dec 04 16:20:23 EST 2008]

For the Liberals to accuse Harper of attacking Quebec is a bit rich and misleading with no attempt by the media to correct them. Harper directed his remarks not towards Quebec but specifically towards the Bloc or the Separatists, something the Liberals used to do regularly, when it served their political advantage. Strange that suddenly the Liberals don't see the Separatists as a threat to Canada but political comrades.

[updated Thu Dec 04 16:40:33 EST 2008]

Liberal resolve to defeat Harper starts to crumble

1 hour, 57 minutes ago
By The Canadian Press

OTTAWA - Liberal resolve to bring down the Conservative government is already starting to crumble.

Within an hour of Prime Minister Stephen Harper winning a two-month reprieve, some Grit MPs were pulling back from the idea of trying to replace the Tory regime with a Liberal-NDP coalition propped up by the Bloc Quebecois.

Toronto MP Jim Karygiannis says the coalition idea is finished and is calling on Stephane Dion to resign the Liberal leadership sooner rather than later.

Dion is scheduled to step aside as Liberal leader once a successor is chosen May 2 but many Liberals remain uneasy about the prospect of ensconcing him in the prime minister's office even temporarily.

Newfoundland MP Scott Simms says all MPs need to give their heads' a collective shake and get back in touch with what their constituents want them to do: fix the faltering economy.

Victoria MP Keith Martin says the two-month suspension of Parliament gives opposition parties a chance to open lines of communication with the government and work out a way to avert another crisis in the new year.

[updated Thu Dec 04 16:42:44 EST 2008]

Yes Mr Harper has poisoned the well but that seems to be par for the course in the land of Conservatives. Look at the people who post on your site here with their contempt and vitriol spewing out of every line. Like Mr Harper they don't engage in debate, they avoid answering questions that they find embarrassing, they distort what people say and if all else fails they bury their interlocutors in capital letters. There is no market place of ideas only venom and bile. Like their heroes in Parliament propaganda is to be preferred to thought and hatred preferred to understanding. It is quite disheartening. I'm nearly sixty years old and I can't believe the world has actually become more stupid in my life time, not less. It's not necessary that you post this comment Mr Nanos. It would just enflame them even more.

[updated Thu Dec 04 17:16:34 EST 2008]

In comparing these polls of Nov 19 2008 and Dec 4 2008 one has to assume the coalition and some pundits are blowing wind and Harper is doing the right thing by Canadians.

Nov 19 2008
New Nanos National Poll - CP, 32%, LP 30%, NDP 20%, GP 10%, BQ 9%
The first post election poll by Nanos Research shows a tightening of the margin between the Conservatives and the Liberals. The initial change may suggest that the Prime Minister’s comments relating to a possible deficit may not necessarily be resonating well among core Conservative supporters in Western Canada. The Dion resignation may have made the Liberals a temporary parking spot for disaffected Conservatives.

Polls Dec 4 2008

Breaking: New polls show huge Tory gains:
Ipsos: CPC 46, LPC 23, NDP 13, BQ 9, GPC 8
Ekos: CPC 44, LPC 24, NDP 15, BQ 9, GPC 8
Compas: 72% biz leaders see worse economy under Dion coalition

[updated Thu Dec 04 19:46:56 EST 2008]

Harper could not win a majority against the weakest Liberal leader ever. He should be able to accomplish that the next time since he now has the hatred of the coalition on his side. If he can't win a huge majority the Party should dump him as soon as possible. If my theory is correct that is exactly what the Conservatives want to do since he is a danger to the corrupt system that they do not want Reformed in any way. They like the way things are and have been since confederation. The powers that be will get rid of Harper and bankrupt the opposition at the same time.

[updated Thu Dec 04 22:09:37 EST 2008]

Democracy denied - it is a sad day for Canada.

[updated Thu Dec 04 22:23:32 EST 2008]

Instead of a dialogue
the rogue wanted to prorogue
I wonder what was in his perogies

I guess there's not much in common in my DNA with that of Shakespeare. :-)

[updated Fri Dec 05 10:56:42 EST 2008]

MADELAINE DROHAN
Globe and Mail Update
December 4, 2008 at 12:32 PM EST

OTTAWA — Canada may be in a political crisis, but it is not in an economic one. Why do so many people prefer to believe that we are?

In the rancorous debate in the House of Commons last Tuesday, the words “economic crisis” were uttered 51 times by members of all political stripes as they wrestled for control of the country. On Bay Street and Main Street there is constant talk of economic meltdown and frequent references to the Great Depression as if we are poised on the brink of a similar precipice.

The facts don't back this up. There are trouble spots, certainly, especially in the North American auto industry and the forestry sector, both of which were already in decline long before banks started toppling on Wall Street. And there is no denying that the U.S. economy is in bad shape, which will eventually have some as yet undefined impact here.

But the latest figures show the Canadian economy was still growing through the end of September, unemployment remains low and most forecasters are calling for a modest contraction next year, which while unpleasant is hardly a nightmare scenario.

Clearly there is something to be gained from saying we are in a crisis, even if we aren't.

The political motivation is easiest to identify. The Liberals, New Democrats and Bloc Québécois could hardly say they wanted to topple the Harper government because it intended to cut their funding. That would look too self-serving to voters. Blaming the government for not reacting to a non-existent crisis is a much easier sell.

The Conservatives, meanwhile, started out dealing with the facts, insisting that the current situation did not call for extraordinary measures. This message was somewhat spoiled when they also tried to argue that hard times called for partisan cuts. By mid-week they'd given up all pretence of defending reality and were invoking the non-existent crisis as a reason that the country needed the stability only they could provide.

The only consensus among the warring politicians was on the supposedly dire state of the economy. There was a competition to outdo each other in misleading and irresponsible statements about where the economy was heading.

John F. Kennedy, the late U.S. president, once said that the Chinese character for crisis had two elements – danger and opportunity. It is the latter that explains why many companies and indeed whole sectors are backing the crisis theory now.

The banks were in there early, calling for extraordinary government aid because of the impact on Canada of the global economic crisis. The Harper government is in the process of borrowing $75-billion dollars, ratcheting up interest-bearing debt in the process, in order to buy mortgages from the banks. Somehow this generous gesture on the part of Canadian taxpayers, who might well have wanted to spend the borrowed money on other things, has slipped below the radar.

The North American car makers also have their hands out, claiming they need help to survive the crisis, even though it has been clear for some time that they were in deep trouble of their own making. “Help us out of the hole we dug,” is not a winning argument when it comes to prying loose government money. So the crisis is invoked yet again, in both the U.S. and Canada.

The car makers are far from the only ones who gain from a crisis atmosphere. All those infrastructure projects that the federal and provincial governments have vowed to speed up mean extra work for engineering firms, designers, suppliers and builders. Who among them would dare mention at this delicate juncture that things really aren't that bad?

Then there are the media. Alarmist headlines and stories are so much more fun to publish or broadcast, regardless whether they reflect the facts. Bad news sells, is the maxim. Journalists don't like to think that they are selling a product, but their corporate owners are keenly focused on the bottom line.

That may not mean there is overt pressure to consciously slant coverage towards the negative. But every journalist worth his or her salt knows subconsciously that a crisis story is more likely to hit the front page or lead the broadcast than some namby-pamby item about things going better than expected.

This deluge of bad news and catastrophic predictions eventually seeps into the public consciousness, frightening people into spending less and saving more, thus helping to create a real crisis. That said, it was heartening to see an Ipsos-Reid poll this week in which 56 per cent of respondents said they thought doomsday predictions of severe recession in Canada were exaggerations.

There is still common sense to be found in Canada, just not among our political, business or opinion leaders.
===========================================================

[updated Fri Dec 05 11:51:00 EST 2008]

Why the "Coalition" and Partisans hate Harper? Top 10 Reasons

1) He won't give Billions of dollars to large companies that are not competitive (Unions)
2) He won't fund special interest groups with taxpayers like the Liberals did.
3) He won't increase taxes to set up special accounts for future governments to hold billions for pet projects.
4) He has done a responsible job in a minority gov't managing the "taxes" of Canadians so far and can't let him continue to demostrate his approach has worked. We are still not in a recession.
5) Failed Idealogy, hate for pragmatic open federalism, Liberal dominated Press Gallery with 13 years in bed with the Liberals. MSM is Liberal and from the "east".
6) None of the "scandals" they have alleged have stuck. No criminal charges.
7) He has humilated the parties and exposed them for being self-serving.
8) They can't attack his actions on the facts so they have to call him names.
9) General Elections are not winnable by any opposition party and the CPC will keep wining those.
10) He included to remove 1 tax subsidy ending political party welfare. (Most important reason)

This "coup" was never about the economy,jobs or trust. It was a power grab and they failed to grab control of the HOC. The coalition has no interest in the general election past or present.

The MP's fear and hate Harper above all else, they can't beat him at the polls and on the ballots. Their only hope is the rule of "parliamenty democracy" to upsurp the will of Canadians as the polls show.

[updated Fri Dec 05 12:33:10 EST 2008]

What other Countries are saying about Canadian felled democracy!

Should we as Canadians care?? and what message are we sending to Third World Countries like Zimbabwe??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/world/americas/05canada.html?_r=1&ref=world
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/547915

[updated Fri Dec 05 17:05:09 EST 2008]

What other Countries are saying about Canadian failed democracy! in our HOUSE OF COMMONS!!

Should we as Canadians care?? and what message are we sending to Third World Countries like Zimbabwe??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/world/americas/05canada.html?_r=1&ref=world
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/547915

[updated Fri Dec 05 17:07:23 EST 2008]

THE BEST TEAM TO LEAD CANADA: COALITION (CHECK LIBERAL CREDENTIALS VS CONSERVATIVES LACK OF THEM.... who have Canadians placed to run the country for the last three years?? NO WONDER IT IS A MESS..

Watch and learn.... Coalition is a must.... conservatives Harper must be voted out in the House of commons.. he can't keep running away.... from being fired!! by the representatives of the house of commons voted in by 65% of Canadian electorate!! enough is enough - act act..

Watch !!watch!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMeNnTF0J_4&feature=related

[updated Fri Dec 05 17:36:27 EST 2008]

MEDIA PLAYING FAVORITISM.. TO HARPER AND THE CONSERVATIVES:

Reporters and news Media seem to be campaigning for Harper and the Conservatives.. Have Canadians noticed how they seem to praise him at every given time on the media and put down the coalition parties every chance they get...Canadians on ground know differently... Are the media playing fair or are the media scared of losing their jobs?? ( I think this is the case)

Harper is a bully and nobody until now(Coalitions) have had the guts to stand against him because he comes at them ruthlessly.. the Media in Canada reminds Canadians of third world Media which praises the presidents and can never print negative things.. example Zimbabwe, Uganda,even Thailand until recently....

Let me remind the Media with this Video when the RCMP stopped them interviewing Harper!!( so Third world)

Many Canadians are saying the same about the Media playing favoritism.. it is shameful!
But .... Don't worry out time will come soon Canadians and the media will learn to respect us....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EZRai3alug

[updated Fri Dec 05 17:53:26 EST 2008]

BANKS IN THE (416) MUST EASE CREDIT TO CONSUMERS FOR AUTO FINANCING OR NO BAIL OUT FOR THE AUTO INDUSTRY. BANKS MUST ISSUE A GUARANTEE FIRST. NO BAIL OUT FOR AUTO INDUSTRY ANYWHERE!

[updated Sat Dec 06 00:26:23 EST 2008]

The West is totally behind Harper, let the War begin!!!!

[updated Sat Dec 06 00:28:05 EST 2008]

“Thursday, November 20, 2008
OTTAWA - Parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page told MPs Thursday that Canada's deficit next year could be as high as $13 billion and that Conservative government decisions to cut the GST and raise government spending are to blame, not global economic events. "The weak fiscal performance to date is largely attributable to previous policy decisions as opposed to weakened economic conditions," Page wrote in his first report to parliamentarians on the government's economic and fiscal position.”

Who should Canadians believe? An impartial report or a report done/cooked up by a man who has a reputation of cooking the books.

Where is the criticism for the Conservatives using taxpayer’s funds to campaign against this coalition?
Yes, we have been told by the PM that the funds will come out of the Conservative war chest. However, if you stop and think about it, Joe Blow donates $120 to the Conservatives; the Conservatives use all of the $120 to finance a TV ad. Joe Blow receives; I believe $90 back from the government as an income tax credit. That $90 came from tax payers.
For the past couple of years the Conservatives have been using tax payer funds (see above) to promote a smear campaign against Mr. Dion. They ran the campaign before an election was even called.
Perhaps someone knows if there is a limit a political party can spend outside of an election? If there isn’t then there should be, because the whole issue IMO would have a greater drain on the government’s finances. I believe the financial funding for political parties, based on votes garnered is a more fair and honest way to run a democracy.
A person who can’t afford to make political donations won’t get there voice heard.

[updated Sat Dec 06 09:56:09 EST 2008]

CONSERVATIVE WAR ROOM SPEAKS FOR HARPER GOVERNMENT.

Political operatives in the Conservative Party war room are predicting that Canada's opposition parties will be forming a coalition government in January, following defeat in the House of Commons of the Harper budget.

Sources confirm that the government expects the Governor-General will permit the opposition parties to take office, without an election, should Harper's government lose a confidence vote on the throne speech or the budget.

[updated Sat Dec 06 11:00:07 EST 2008]

Informed1,

How are the manipulative mania rallies going? I hope you have plenty of coffee and hot chocolate. Will the Dear Leader be inspiring the multitudes with his rhetorical excesses? Here's a cheer for the Petty Low Road cult of intellectual mediocrity and mendacity.

Please give us an update. Canada awaits.

[updated Sat Dec 06 12:50:12 EST 2008]

Rallies what a joke, 1000 people in Vancouver, there all NDP Union Members half of them are over paid already! Rallies will do nothing! Go Back To Canadians for a Re Vote, the problem your to lazy to Vote. Larry GMAC no longer finances Vehicles it is all through the Dealers and Banks, it is not the repayment schedule it is the credit approval that Banks must lower, the Conservatives gave them millions for this purpose, Consumer spending or did they pay off your bad mortgage.

[updated Sat Dec 06 15:54:08 EST 2008]

Question - has anyone tried the vote machine on the CBC website?? when you click on Conservative button the vote does work if one wants to vote against them .. but hey Presto try if you want to vote against the other parties and the vote machine seems to work!! is that Democracy or what?? or are other people getting better luck??

Seems to me the CBC polls will always favor the conservatives and Harper... way to go CBC

[updated Sat Dec 06 15:59:22 EST 2008]

The coup has failed and the Junta is dead. Both Manley and Iggy have declared it so but Dion refuses to go quietly and is attending a rally today still calling for the coalition with him as PM and actually believes that it is still a possibility, even though it has gasped its last dying breath. He has good reason for refusing to see reality. After all this was his last chance to save his legacy and not be the only leader in party history not to become PM.

He will have to face reality by mid week because the party has told him that he must go quietly by then or they will oust him. Of course the immediate problem for the party is that no one wants the job of interim leader and the few that might consider it have already declared for a leadership candidate and therefore is not acceptable to the other two.

Rae has also hung his political future on the coalition. He will start his cross country tour today trying to sell this shit ball to Canadians but it will be an almost impossible task to try and sell the idea of giving a mandate for a coalition that all three parties vehemently stated in the election that they would never do and in the process give the separatists control over the govt agenda and by extension the entire country. Good luck Bob, you’re gonna need it!

Iggy on the other hand has seen the light and finally caught on to the fact that the Grits were being played by the dippers and the Bloc. The plan all along was to destroy Liberal support both inside and outside Quebec and as the polls indicate it worked perfectly. The Bloc will now clean up lost Grit and Tory seats in Que with a few going to the NDP while outside la Belle Provence the Tories and NDP will clean up and in the process position the NPD well for what they really want, second party status while the Grits will be relegated to fourth party status. Layton and Duceppe hatched this plan only days after the election and correctly estimated that the political lightweights running the LPC would be too busy infighting and attacking the Tories to notice what they were up to.

This has set the opening salvo of what promises to ne a very open and nasty leadership race. The lines have been drawn. I am told that Iggy has the support of 56 MPs and some party heavyweights such as Chrétien and Manley while Rae has most of the other 21 MPs and most of the Senate so it should be a great show and will probably happen well before May now. Especially if they can’t find an interim leader. If Rae wins the coalition may have a new life. If Iggy prevails it will remain dead. Go Bob Go!! Your party deserves you.

[updated Sat Dec 06 17:34:40 EST 2008]

A Special Holiday Message for Informed1 and MRM.

Guys,

I want you to know that I will be especially careful while out in the snow this winter. Moreover, I will take even further precautions should I find myself in Ottawa on Albert Street. I would hate to slip and fall only to have a couple of people get a perverse pleasure by kicking me while I'm down but not quite out. I hear that two on one attack is the name of the game on some parts of Albert Street!

[updated Sat Dec 06 22:43:05 EST 2008]

Nik,

I've discovered a novel way to do a bit of indirect polling while commenting on posts: I would suggest two options - "Join this conversation." for the calm, cool and collected while Conservative supporters could opt for "Join this harangue".

Who knows, might be a way to save a few bucks on the preliminaries.

[updated Sun Dec 07 00:12:51 EST 2008]

Are there no Laws for Treason in this country? If there is one Party in Quebec should qualify. Done With Coalition Now!!!!!

[updated Sun Dec 07 00:42:14 EST 2008]

You Conservative Law and Order Types really make my day!

It may interest some of you to know that the Parliament of Canada recently adopted amendments to the Copyright Act. How typical of CPC political operatives to be fast asleep at the switch in the war room.

Perhaps someone in Central Command should wake up and clue in their lesser minions that they are in open violation of Harper's copyright amendments.

And the beat goes on.

[updated Sun Dec 07 08:06:04 EST 2008]

Bob Rae knifes his leader Dion this morning on CBC , Dion must go before budget.

================================================

Dion has support from Liberal leadership candidates

Liberal leadership candidates Dominic LeBlanc, Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae, left to right, throw their support behind current party chief Stéphane Dion for a coalition government after a caucus meeting Monday in Ottawa. (Tom Hanson/Canadian Press)
Dion, who has been blamed by some for the Liberals' poor showing in the October election, had agreed to step down as party leader in May.

However, in the hour-long meeting on Monday, Dion received support from all three Liberal MPs vying to replace him, Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Dominic LeBlanc, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported from outside the House of Commons.

The three leadership candidates emerged from the meeting together and told reporters they agreed to Dion's presence, but insisted the campaign to replace him will continue "in the normal fashion."

Ignatieff, who is the front-runner to succeed Dion in an upcoming leadership convention, said the three candidates were "at one" in their belief that "the only leader who can lead us in this context is the duly elected leader of the Liberal party."

"I support the accord because it's fiscally responsible, it provides responsible economic leadership in tough times and it also conserves the basic principles of national unity, equality that our party has always believed in," he said.

Rae described the caucus meeting as "historic" and "moving," while also saying the deal was "perfectly constitutional" and would present for Canadians "the very best possible government."

[updated Sun Dec 07 10:31:47 EST 2008]

Coalition must stand a chance..it is time for a change in the Canadian Politics and that means Harper and the conservatives must be pushed out now.. no time to waste.
Harper's dirty Politics are History- We as Canadians need a new beginning to a different kind of politics that bring parties to work together for the good of our country.. the conservatives do not know the mining of this kind of governance..

[updated Sun Dec 07 14:39:01 EST 2008]

Anyone who does not support Harper, is a Political Buffoon and UnCanadian just like the Liberals are Un Canadian

[updated Sun Dec 07 16:09:51 EST 2008]

Canadians now believe the House of Commons has no powers and it is toothless entity going forward... This means the house of representatives that Canadians voted for - for each party during elections to represent them in the house of commons are actually powerless and useless- rendering the house of commons useless..!!!!

Questions is why then should Canadians vote for MP's that have no power to represent them in parliament/House of Commons, isn't it a fact since the ruling on proroguing the parliament -the House of common has become a sham to Canadian Democracy and actually an empty boardroom where the power is vested in the hands of one person?? Stephen Harper... isn't this a dictatorship??

[updated Sun Dec 07 16:27:04 EST 2008]

Some say Canada is a Banna Republic, that maybe true, but this Banna Republic is better than Liberals or NDP can do. All Liberals want to do is steal your money, like Chretien did. And why is Chretien not in jail for the Sponsorship Program which he mastermind. How is that court coming, the appeal.

[updated Sun Dec 07 20:48:38 EST 2008]

Since the well has been poisoned again by Conservative policies just as Mike Harris did years ago we need to find a new source . We might be getting that tomorrow if the Liberal party takes the necessary steps to remove the source of the poison. The tactics used by the CPC with their attack ads were like arsenic for the the Grits . Remove the target of those lies and deceit in order to purify the water again. Will Harper use the same methods to attack the new leader of the party. I hope so because it will show him for what he really is . A power hungry little man who will stop at nothing to stay in power. Power corrupts,absolute...........

[updated Sun Dec 07 22:18:00 EST 2008]

Harper has crushing poll lead on crisis -CHECKMATE

Fri Dec 5, 9:24 AM

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Prime Minister Harper has mounted a crushing polling lead as the result of a political crisis in which an opposition coalition sought to take power, three polls released over the past two days showed.

The surveys showed Harper's Conservatives would take well over the 40 percent needed to convert his minority in Parliament into a majority, and a lead of 20 percentage points over the main opposition Liberal Party.

The main opposition Liberals, the leftist New Democrats and the Bloc Quebecois, which wants to take Quebec out of Canada, signed a deal on Monday to try to replace Harper with a Liberal-NDP coalition supported by the Bloc.

They were upset with Harper's attempt, since withdrawn, to cut off direct subsidies of political parties and they also said he was not doing enough to boost the economy. During the election campaign, they had ruled out forming coalitions.

Harper mounted an attack on what he called a coalition driven by separatists and socialists, and public opinion swung his way at least for now, though pollsters say spikes in support can fade as crises fade.

A Strategic Counsel poll in Friday's Globe and Mail newspaper put the Conservatives ahead of the Liberals 45 to 24 percent, with the New Democrats trailing at 14 percent.

This compares with the October 14 electoral result of 37.6 percent for the Conservatives, 26.2 percent for the Liberals and 18.2 percent for the New Democrats.

An Ipsos Reid survey released on Friday in Canwest newspapers put the Conservatives at 46 percent, the Liberals at 23 percent and the New Democrats at 13 percent.

An Ekos poll released the night before showed a 20-point lead for the Conservatives.

Fifty-six percent of those polled by Ipsos Reid said they would rather go to another election, even though one was just held, rather than let the coalition govern.

Harper won seven weeks of breathing space on Thursday with the suspension of Parliament until late January, when he can present a budget with economic stimulus.

The coalition could try to bring him down then, though some Liberals are saying they should think hard before doing that.

(Reporting by Randall Palmer; editing by Doina Chiacu)
============================================

1) Opposition are now exposed for back-room deal to public prior to election being over.
2) Political Funding Cut is reason why they overthrew parliament
3) Power Grab is now in the minds of Canadians of the opposition parties
4) Libs and NDP are in "bed" with the Separtists
5) Election 7 weeks ago results don't matter to oppostion
6) Harper, Bloc has now "hundreds" of sound bites of Libs+NDP in support of BLOC.

Next campaign the Libs, NDP are toast. New leaders are required by Libs+ NDP

[updated Mon Dec 08 07:21:53 EST 2008]

What should be obvious to any but yellow-dog Tories after the past few weeks is that Harper is unfit to be Prime Minister. He turned a simple economic statement into a constitutional and national unity crisis. Kind of makes you worry what might happen if he were in delicate negotiations with another country over trade-- would a war break out?
The main difficulty is deciding if a coalition government, led by Dion or someone else, would be an improvement.
Personally I have no doubt that Dion would make a better Prime Minister than Harper (the bar is pretty low) but he obviously does not command enough respect to be accepted as one. I'm not wild about Ignatieff (silly enough to support the Iraq invasion when even Jean Cretien realized that it was a bad idea) or Bob Rae (didn't exactly set the world on fire as Ontario premier although perhaps he's learned something). Either would be a better choice than Harper, but as I said earlier, the bar is pretty low, and in these complicated times, we need an A-list Prime Minister, not a B-list one.
Here's my suggestion: Ken Dryden. He's played for the Canadiens and been an executive with the Leafs, so he's got the national unity thing sewed up. He's been in Parliament long enough to know how it works, so he can operate the governmental software. And he's wicked smart: to borrow from Mordecai Richler, Harper would have to sit on several telephone books to be on Dryden's intellectual level.

[updated Mon Dec 08 10:45:43 EST 2008]

We think the Liberals must have been smoking something to fall for this idea of Layton's. It is one thing to use the threat of it as leverage but they really meant to do go ahead with it.With a leader they don't even have confidence in let alone the country. It would only have helped the NDP and the Bloc. The Liberals have mortgaged their party's future for short term "cash" and ruined any chances of a come back in the West for a generation.

BTW Nik- when are you going to do a poll on the coalition idea? You seem to be the only pollster inactive in this "crisis".

[updated Mon Dec 08 12:46:30 EST 2008]

Dion is either Toast now or going to be Toast, (10:41 am Pacific) just got up! The question is who will be the new Town Fool the Liberals will come up with????? Internet Voting should be used for General Election, Elections Canada tells me the Liberals keep rejecting this method. This is a confused and behind the time Party and you want them to govern Canada, tell to go back to grade 6 and get updated on technologies of today. Stupid Liberals.

[updated Mon Dec 08 13:44:43 EST 2008]

One down, Two to go!!!!

[updated Mon Dec 08 14:39:55 EST 2008]

Conservatives are running scared.. they even have poor Rural Farmers running around in circles on the hill - chanting :) what a weak minority party.. Glad it is on its way out...

No intimidation will stop the coalition marching on.. Oh when the saints.. go Marching on Oh when the Saints go marching on... yes we will March through and like John Baird said that go over the House of representatives and the GG's head..that is the conservative way of doing things but the coalition will march together and engage with the Majority of Canadians Right to the House of Commons and a new Dawn will begin-
Politics in Canada will forever change for better!

[updated Mon Dec 08 14:42:47 EST 2008]

Dion is gone, The only question now is, who will be the next Lame Duck the Liberal Party of Canada will come up with. Go back to the people for another General Election. This is the right thing do! That if you have people in your Party, that have any Guts, but continual parasites on the system and Parliament for free hand outs!

[updated Mon Dec 08 18:11:25 EST 2008]

I have heard from credible sources that Mulroney and others are starting a move to have Harper out of the party leadership ASAP and there is much quiet support for this in caucus. Harper is dead in Quebec and will be in Ontario fairly soon after Iggy assumes the Liberal leadership.

You heard it here and more of this will start to filter out after the Quebec election is digested.

I like it so far and hope it comes to its logical conclusion.

[updated Mon Dec 08 19:28:43 EST 2008]

Harper not out of line for wanting to crush the opposition

CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD cblatchford@globeandmail.com
December 8, 2008

I have always thought that consensus-building in all its gentle, inclusive forms was vastly overrated.

I know it is the modern Canadian way, and that I am out of step with many in our delicate nation, but I can't help it: While I admire a graceful victor, the guy I love is the winner who knows he's won, and is ready to grab the spoils that are rightfully his. That doesn't seem churlish to me, but rather the point of competition, and of winning. No one expects the Stanley Cup champions to invite into the dressing room the losing squad, or, say, to drag the Toronto Maple Leafs off the golf courses of the planet and let them share in the champagne.

It is through this twisted prism that I've watched the startling events in Ottawa unfold over the past week.

I never thought Stephen Harper was out of line in trying to revoke the relatively new (in Canada) public financing of political parties, perhaps because I hated the idea when it was first floated and was furious a few years ago when then-prime minister Jean Chrétien steered it unto law.
But more to the point, even if it was about crushing the opposition, Mr. Harper and his party had won the election, and though he'd not won his majority, he had still won more seats and got more votes than the parties led by either Stéphane Dion or Jack Layton and certainly of course more than that headed by the unelected would-be senator, Elizabeth May.

In my simple mind it went like this: If this was something Mr. Harper believed in doing, then why was doing it so wrong? Wasn't that why he wanted to win, to try stuff he wanted to try? And didn't we all sort of understand that the guy who won the election probably would try to bring in his ideas?

Clearly though, this was the red flag he fatally waved before the New Democrats and Liberals, who seem every bit as adept at raising money as they are at quickly producing TV-ready videos of their leader.

The earliest stories about all of this rightly noted that although the opposition parties were saying the fuss was all about the Tories' lack of a proper plan for the global financial situation, it wasn't. The real reason was Mr. Harper's threat to pull the public money rug from underneath Liberal, Bloc Québécois and NDP feet, and just as they were getting used to the nice soft feel of it, too.

Yet in the days that followed, this hard truth seemed to get lost, as did the fact of a Tory-taped NDP conference call featuring Mr. Layton gleefully discussing the coalition that was our way coming.

The Tories didn't set out to eavesdrop on this thing, by the by; rather, the NDP accidentally e-mailed the phone-in number to a Tory MP with the same last name as one of the NDP MPs.

The Tory did the natural thing - it is certainly natural in my business, anyway; I defy any reporter to tell me he wouldn't have phoned - called the number, listened in and away we were.

The key revelation on the tape was Mr. Layton's boast that "this whole thing would not have happened if the moves hadn't been made with the Bloc to lock them in early... the first part was done a long time ago, I won't go into details." Details, as it happens, are exactly what I'd like to know: What does it take to win the support of the party whose raison d'être is to break up the country? What do you have to promise?

The tape delivered another blow to the notion that the opposition was merely responding to the evil Mr. Harper, or, as a dear leftie friend told me, "You poke people in the eye with a sharp stick often enough, they react." The problem with that theory is that Mr. Harper had not yet poked his sharp stick at the opposition lads and lassies when the NDP apparently began courting the Bloc and fomenting a throw-down, and this by the words of their own leader taken at their most ordinary meaning.

[updated Tue Dec 09 10:16:24 EST 2008]

The Houses of the conservatives is in trouble.. sources say that the MP's want Harper out even before January budget..

anyone ready to bet come January after the defeat of Budget Harper will be dumped..

I will be proven right!! here on Nanos.. Harper's days are numbered!!

[updated Tue Dec 09 11:09:59 EST 2008]

Conservatives are they running scared or what?? Harper's planned news conference today!!!yet again to spew lies.. that confirms fear..

Canadians will never trust Harper again .. for him to lie in Broad daylight on National media.. which was picked up by international media making Canada a laughing stock world over that the opposition did not have a flag behind them when they all held a press conference is the worst mistake Harper made.. even Canadian school kids and University students were shocked(Canada's New generation- who look at Leaders as an example)
Whispers on the ground from the conservative party members say Harper is finished and 62% of Canadians who voted for the oppositions would like to get that chance to have a vote of no confidence even before January- but this is not possible because Harper prorogued Parliament...

Harper and the conservatives must be removed.. alternative coalition is ready to step in with immediate effect. the 62% of Canadians have spoken and given their blessing..

Remember Canadians the Polls Lie and are favorable to Harper's party
if one were to believe polls go look for an example from the Quebec polls yesterday:):)
anyway the ADQ supported by Harper in the last Quebec elections is out!!! lost most seats except for 7!

[updated Tue Dec 09 11:37:15 EST 2008]

Liberals now have no leader, they are dropping off, Liberals are a confused and dysfunctional party! Please see your local doctor for a mental assessment. Your mental state Liberals is not good for the country. Go to the people for a Re Vote! Do you all have type A personalities?

[updated Tue Dec 09 12:26:29 EST 2008]

Message to Nik Nanos your site has become so popular, number one in Canada, we now cannot find the replies, please assign a number to each posted comment that we can see to respond I m getting some many e-mails I cannot keep up. Ha Ha.

[updated Tue Dec 09 12:31:11 EST 2008]

Message to those that do not get IT: We do not like Mulroney and we never have, we do not pay attention to him, We are former Reform Members of Good Solid Canadians that make up over 1/2 of the Conservative Party, Mulroney belongs to the old Progressive side along with Joe Who, Our symbolic leader is Preston Manning not Brian Mulroney. This is for the confused Liberals in Ontario and Quebec. (namely the (416) area) That do know what time of day it is!

[updated Tue Dec 09 12:57:30 EST 2008]

Rae bows down....

"It was a remarkable turnaround for Mr. Rae, given that just a day earlier he was urging Liberals not to select a leader through back-door processes, but rather a leadership convention and public debates." (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081209.wPOLliberals1209/BNStory/National)

I guess when back room deals and power grabs are S.O.P. at the LPCHQ. I could not have been 75% of the caucus said NO thank's BOB?

Now we have an "annointed" runner up to Dion in Montreal Convention not elected by Liberals card carrying members leading the coalition. So 56 MP's deny grassroots a voice in selecting their party leader, anyone suprised?

Best Wishes Iggy and I hope you have a bullet/knife proof vest from your fellow MP's. Like you they seem to have a great passion for destroying liberal leaders in no short order.

Gushing Idol Worship Article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060825.wxboat26/BNStory/National/home

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Can Harper work with him: YES.

Extension of Canada's Afghanistan mission
Since his election to Parliament, Ignatieff has been one of the few [5] opposition members supporting the minority Conservative government's commitment to Canadian military activity in Afghanistan. Prime Minister Stephen Harper called a vote in the House of Commons for May 17, 2006 on extending the Canadian Forces current deployment in Afghanistan until February 2009. During the debate, Ignatieff expressed his "unequivocal support for the troops in Afghanistan, for the mission, and also for the renewal of the mission." He argued that the Afghanistan mission tests the success of Canada's shift from "the peacekeeping paradigm to the peace-enforcement paradigm," the latter combining "military, reconstruction and humanitarian efforts together."

The opposition Liberal caucus of 102 MPs was divided, with 24 MPs supporting the extension, 66 voting against, and 12 abstentions. Among Liberal leadership candidates, Ignatieff and Scott Brison voted for the extension. Ignatieff led the largest Liberal contingent of votes in favour, with at least five of his caucus supporters voting along with him to extend the mission. Following the vote, Harper crossed the floor to shake Ignatieff's hand.

In a subsequent campaign appearance, Ignatieff reiterated his view of the mission in Afghanistan. He stated: "the thing that Canadians have to understand about Afghanistan is that we are well past the era of Pearsonian peacekeeping."

[updated Tue Dec 09 14:28:37 EST 2008]

Do we want a Coordinated-Missle Shield in North America?
Iggy does so will his Liberals now.

Differing from the opinion of the majority of Liberal Parliament members , Ignatieff's supported a ground-based North American Missile Defence Shield citing Ignatieff the need for a coordinated North American defence. "We don't want our decisions to fracture the command system of North American defence," he told the party at a national policy conference.
==============================================
Looks like we finally have a liberal who won't bash Americans for political points? Can someone send a memo to Layton/Duceppe to back off the anti-american rants now.

[updated Tue Dec 09 14:35:24 EST 2008]

Is it time to bring back the original Reform Party to cause havoc in Parliament, We are not getting things done under Liberals or NDP. Reform should be part of another Coalition. When was the last the NDP were in Power! What did John Gomery find out about the Liberal Party of Canada, you need to refresh your mind. East of the Manitobia/Ontario Border. Do you have a Job? Albertans Do and So does BC, ha ha. Your paying the price for Chretien, Trudeau, Marc LaLonde and Turner who. The only good guy in the group was Paul Martin, Can Iggy the Iceman match that, I doubt it!

[updated Tue Dec 09 16:00:09 EST 2008]

If Nik Nanos gave us the ability to change our nicknames on this site, like the Vancouver Sun, I would change to "Thorn In Your Side "

[updated Tue Dec 09 16:04:27 EST 2008]

Now that Bob (El Foldo) Rae got the message from Liberal Executive, One thing is guaranteed, I'm not VOTING for Iggy the Iceman!!!! How do like that!

[updated Tue Dec 09 18:23:15 EST 2008]

There seems to have been much malice and mayhem since the arrival of Mr. Harper on Parliament Hill.

His latest and most egregious act was to wittingly use the economic update to include a partisan poison pill so lethal to the Opposition that retaliation was necessary for their political survival. The termination of the $27M in public subsidies was intended solely to financially weaken the Opposition parties. These subsidies exist in nearly all Western nations and are considered the price of democracy. They were established to help parties finance their operations after the elimination of corporate and union contributions. It was thought that these groups exercised excessive influence on political parties. Above all, it is important to remember that the Opposition does have an essential function in our democracy. After having just spent $300M+ on an unnecessary election that was nothing more than a personal power grab, it is foolish to imply that $27M to engage in the democratic process is inconsequential.

But Mr. Harper’s partisan ploy boomeranged when the Opposition called his bluff. Rather than face the consequence of his own machinations – the loss of power - he hastily visited the Governor-General to petition for prorogation of Parliament to avoid a no-confidence vote. His egotism seems to have no limits.

In spite of the malicious intent behind this act, I couldn’t understand or support the opportunistic grab-for-power by the Opposition triumvirate. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

If Mr. Harper were serious about politicians paying their way, he could have cut all subsidies available to political parties. Voluntary or not, subsidies are subsidies. The money comes from taxpayers’ pockets whether via substantial tax credits or the $1.95-per-vote subsidy. Political parties need money to operate and I think that the vote-based subsidy is a fair and democratic method of ensuring financing. Some people can’t afford to donate to political parties, even with generous tax credits. The per-vote subsidy gives every Canadian the opportunity to participate in this important democratic process. This diabolical deed had nothing to do with concern for taxpayers’ money. It was a partisan cheap shot meant to humiliate and hobble the Opposition. As an aside, if he were sincerely serious about politicians making a contribution, he should do something about the gold-plated pensions MPs have set up for themselves over the years.

The country is in a recession with many Canadians in danger of losing or have already lost their livelihood. A quality leader doesn’t stoop to partisan excesses in difficult economic times.

Mr. Harper rolled the dice and they came up snake eyes. He damaged himself and, unjustly, the Conservative Party by this mean-spirited act.

[updated Wed Dec 10 00:02:01 EST 2008]

2 Down and Now The Liberals have" IGGY The Iceman " trying to take a crack at Power, What happened to the so called Grass Roots Voting the Liberals wanted. It Tanked in a sea of dysfunctional confusion and you want this group and the nut crackers at the NDP running the government??? No Thank You!

[updated Wed Dec 10 02:00:34 EST 2008]

More Tory lies and the guy has yet to pronounce anything he will do;tories lie about everything:
Tory Attacks Ignatieff in Letter
Josh Pringle
Wednesday, December 10, 2008

A high-ranking Conservative Party official is accusing the Liberals of parachuting Michael Ignatieff into the position of Prime Minister.

In a fundraising letter, Chair of the Tory national campaign Doug Finley says Ignatieff would become the head of the proposed Liberal-NDP coalition vowing to replace the minority Conservative Government.

Finley writes "the person who would become Canada's Prime Minister wasn't even the leader of a federal party during the last election and may not even be elected by the Liberal party's membership."

Ignatieff is expected to be endorsed as Liberal leader by the national executive today just hours after he's unanimously supported by the Liberal caucus. He will be acclaimed as permanent leader at the Liberal convention in Vancouver in May.

[updated Wed Dec 10 08:23:47 EST 2008]

Nik has any previous topic generated as many posts? Does this mean the m ore Canadians are waking up and getting more involved in politics.

I know it hasn't affected the turn out in Quebec, where traditionally they active politically, they had the lowest turn out ever.

This reminds of what I heard from an European journalist recently. After the US election he was discussing this with a southern gentleman.
Journalist: "I can't understand why you have such low turn outs in your election. Is it because of ignorance or apathy?"
Southern gent.: "Aw don't rawghtly know and aw don't care."

[updated Wed Dec 10 09:53:25 EST 2008]

Michael Ignatieff's first test.

The NDP suggests the Liberal’s have a binding contract to take down the Government at first chance. NDP may be frustrated with Ignatieff’s stance on coalition

Michael Ignatieff appears to be leader of a divided coalition.

[updated Wed Dec 10 12:05:01 EST 2008]

Let this message be CLEAR, I'm totally against Iggy the Iceman for being Prime Minister of Canada, Do you have any problem with that? My Vote cancels yours out and you lose again and again. That is why the Coalition of Fools, do not want to go back to the people, they know they will get wiped out, especially the NDP.

[updated Wed Dec 10 16:13:30 EST 2008]

Calling on all former Reform Members it is time to reorganize and protect ourselves from the Evil Liberals in Ontario and Quebec. Protect the West at all costs, Man the Borders.
Calling all former Reform Members the West needs you again. against the Liberals.

[updated Wed Dec 10 16:30:02 EST 2008]

New Liberal leader Ignatieff threatens, cajoles
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Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print By Randall Palmer Randall Palmer – 36 mins agoOTTAWA (Reuters) – Newly minted Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff warned Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Wednesday he is prepared to topple the minority Conservative government but he also opened the door to compromise.

Ignatieff said he was willing to form a coalition government with the New Democratic Party, or fight another election -- even though the Conservatives crushed the Liberals in October -- unless Harper becomes more collaborative.

"So the ball is in Mr. Harper's court," Ignatieff, a former Harvard historian, told a news conference just after the party chose him to replace Stephane Dion, who stepped down because of the electoral loss.

"Mr. Harper now has a choice. He can continue down this path of divisive politics or he can start working constructively with Parliament. The choice is his."

Ignatieff, who is expected to try to nudge the party away from the left and more to the political center, took a softer line with Harper than those who favored bringing down the Conservatives, no matter what, after Parliament reconvenes on January 26 and the government presents its promised budget the next day.

He nonetheless sought to show that he would not be a pushover, declaring that Harper had lost the confidence of the House of Commons and had to earn it back.

"I am prepared to vote non-confidence in this government, and I am prepared to enter into a coalition government with our partners," he said.

Last week, the Liberals signed a formal agreement with the left-leaning New Democratic Party and the separatist Bloc Quebecois to try to bring the Conservatives down and install a Liberal-NDP government.

This prompted a backlash from many Canadians, and Ignatieff has distanced himself from the plan somewhat.

He said he told the Liberal caucus on Wednesday that no party could enjoy the confidence of Canadians "if it decides to vote against a budget it hasn't even read."

Harper angered the opposition in late November when the government's fall fiscal update failed to introduce economic stimulus measures while trying to cut off public funding for political parties.

On Tuesday, a more conciliatory Harper said he would like to sit down with Ignatieff and hear his ideas for a budget he promised would have stimulus measures.

Ignatieff said there was room to work as long as fiscal responsibility and national unity were respected. But he said he would not be actively seeking a meeting with Harper: "He knows where to find me."

He also gave a clear warning to the Conservative Party not to roll out attack ads at this sensitive stage, as it did with devastating effect after Dion won the Liberal leadership in December 2006.

"We are in a situation of parliamentary crisis. The prime minister of Canada has lost the confidence of the House of Commons," Ignatieff said.

"It would seem to me -- I don't want to offer the prime minister any advice -- a very, very serious mistake to engage in partisan attacks against the party leader at this moment. I hope I make myself clear."

Both Ignatieff and Dion are former university professors but Ignatieff has shown himself more able to deliver punchy sound bites in both English and French, though he has drawn some criticism for appearing aloof and aristocratic.

He also faces the difficult task of rebuilding a party that is broke and is poorly organized in large parts of Canada, particularly in the West and Quebec.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081210/wl_canada_nm/canada_us_politics_51

[updated Wed Dec 10 18:07:44 EST 2008]

Iggy Plan B

Stay with coalition to defeat and get GG to accept it, than walk away leaving NDP crying at the door outside Cabinet. Is this possible?

Let the NDP/Bloc prop up the Lib minority and dare the NDP/Bloc have to want to defeat the Lib minority and force an election.

That is possible. ROFL.

[updated Wed Dec 10 18:41:01 EST 2008]

This is a great day for all Liberal members and supporters. The political sands have begun to shift under the Prime Minister's feet. A momentous day for Canadian democracy!

My message for Michael Ignatieff is as follows: having been until recently a Conservative Party member, I want him to know what I've learned over the past four years. In my judgment, it is imperative for the Liberal Party to recognize that Stephen Harper holds a summa cum laude degree in political deviousness and manipulation. He cannot be trusted under any circumstances. This is a man who undoubtedly has committed Machiavelli's The Prince to memory.

Furthermore, Stephen Harper is at the top of his game when he is plotting. The man is quite literally a political chess master -- Liberals cannot afford, even for a second, to underestimate the PM. He must be given absolutely no quarter. Otherwise, Stephen Harper will unquestionably get the better of the Liberal Party and succeed in destroying it.

[updated Wed Dec 10 20:53:38 EST 2008]

I won't pretend to run a scientific poll like Nik but we did put up a very interesting poll on our website on Mr. Harper's honesty and the results are coming in pretty fast and are very interesting. http://canadianbullshit.com/politics.html I think many of us trusted him at first but over time you began to see the problems where he would look into the camera and tell you things that just weren't true. You expect a bit of that from politicians but soon there comes a tipping point and I think Mr Harper has passed it. The on-line poll is certainly raising some questions. Keep up the great work Nik!

Marcie

[updated Thu Dec 11 08:42:04 EST 2008]

2008-12-04

What outcome would you like to see happen in the parliamentary crisis?

The Tories continue to govern with Harper as PM 49%
The Tories continue to govern with a different PM 8%
The coalition takes over 11%
The Governor General dissolves parliament for a general election 14%
A no confidence vote dissolves parliament for a general election 7%
Anything but another general election 3%
I don't care anymore 7%

Total Votes for this Question: 8553

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EVERY natinonal polls show 60-90% don't want the coalition.

[updated Thu Dec 11 09:22:41 EST 2008]

Canada to Impose Strict Carbon Cuts If Harper Government Falls
By Jeremy van Loon

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Canada’s opposition parties would implement tough carbon-dioxide emissions targets if they vote to topple Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s minority Conservative government next year, the country’s Green Party leader said.

A coalition government would aim to reduce output of the greenhouse gas by 30 percent by 2020 from 1990 levels and 80 percent by 2050, Elizabeth May said in an interview in Poland where United Nations climate negotiations are taking place.

Canada, whose CO2 emissions have risen almost a third since 1990, promised to lower output 20 percent by 2020 from 2006 levels, according to its chief climate-change negotiator. Canada is among the worst transgressors of the Kyoto treaty, which obliges richer countries to reduce CO2, blamed for contributing to global warming.

“Canada’s position is not middling bad but bottom of the heap,” May said today. “Canadians would be shocked to known how bad their country’s reputation is at these conferences. It’s a real source of shame.”

Delegates from 187 countries are negotiating a successor treaty to the Kyoto pact, which Canada signed and ratified. The North American country is among those hindering progress toward an agreement, which must be reached next year in Copenhagen, the environmental group Greenpeace said.

Liberal Party lawmakers in Canada reached an accord on Dec. 8 with the New Democratic Party and separatist Bloc Quebecois to bring down Harper’s government on what they say has been a lack of government stimulus for the economy.

In response, the prime minister suspended parliament until Jan. 26. Harper has governed since 2006 without a majority mandate.

As part of a possible coalition pact, the Liberals had to give up their plan to introduce a carbon tax, May said. Sources of tension in environmental policy among the opposition parties include oil production from Alberta’s tar sands, which the NDP would ban, while the Liberals favor a production freeze, she added.

To contact the reporter on this story: Jeremy van Loon via Poznan, Poland, at jvanloon@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: December 11, 2008 09:58 EST

[updated Thu Dec 11 11:25:44 EST 2008]

Supreme Court Ruled: Liberals Chretien/Martin & cabinet acted illegally:

No need to refund EI surplus: SCOC
Janice Tibbetts, Canwest News Service
Published: Thursday, December 11, 2008
OTTAWA - The Supreme Court of Canada refused on Thursday to order the government to return a $54-billion surplus in employment insurance premiums to contributors, ruling that it is up to Parliament to decide how the money is spent.
But the court also ruled that Ottawa illegally collected premiums from workers and employers for three years because it let the federal cabinet set the premium rate rather than Parliament, making it taxation without representation.

The Supreme Court of Canada will consider whether access-to-information laws, which permit the public to see documents that the state seeks to keep secret, are so restrictive that they violate freedom of expression.

The government was given 12 months to right its wrong, but the court did not specify how that should happen, nor did it order the money, estimated at about $57 billion, to be returned to contributors for 2002, 2003 and 2005

[updated Thu Dec 11 12:22:42 EST 2008]